Title says it all but videoworth the extra thousand words.
He was arrested at the bar after the responding officers saw 30 seconds of the video.
It went from an “oh HELL no” moment to an “oh HELL yes” moment. Kudos to the arresting officers.
Wonder what would have happened if there was a pile on prior to the on-duty officers arrival.
And to the guy who shot the video.
Before cellphones were ubiquitous, these things happened but didn’t end as well.
Yes. Finally someone who shoots video with their phone in landscape mode.
Don’t you mean “Gangsta style”?
Yep. Portrait videos are a personal pet-peeve and relationship deal breaker for me.
What has not been well explained is what the passing references to the soldier “becoming emotional.” That was not captured on video, and I wonder what that was about. And in no way is that meant to justify the cop’s actions.
For those of us at work, and can’t watch video links:
Is it worth describing the event, or should I just leave it to my imagination ?
It seemed like there might have been an Army Vs Marine rivalry going on there, I wonder if she started getting a bit loud over it. But it doesn’t matter what she was doing, he damn near dislocated her shoulders. You can see her writhing in pain almost the entire time. If her really wanted to arrest her then he needed to put her in handcuffs, charge her, Mirandize her, and call for back up and have another officer bring her in to be booked…and he knows that, he’s been a cop for 14 years and he knows damn well he’s going to get in trouble for twisting her arms and making those comments. I’m going to go out on a limb and suggest that he was as drunk as her and probably had no business putting handcuffs on her and even less business carrying his gun into a bar with alcohol in his system. In Wisconsin that’s a huge fine.
A bit more complicated than that. Up front I’ll say that I am going to in no way try to defend his actions. The fact that he was immediately arrested and soon fired shows there is no defense.
But please note that handcuffing and controlling an uncooperative subject is very difficult. Not at all like it is on TV. Anytime you see that it will look violent because that is the only way to do it. On TV they always pull some ninja shit and it takes about a second. The only time I’ve been seriously injured on the job (broken hand) was trying to cuff a 120 lbs drunk woman by myself.
As an update from the article in the OP, he is no longer suspended. Fired. Charges still pending in the court.
Several of the articles mention that prior to the attempted arrest she was “emotional” and he went over to calm her down. She refused his help. He then went out to his car, got his cop shit and went to arrest her. Now I don’t know what it means by “emotional.” It could mean anything from sad and crying to pissed off and shouting. Regardless, he should have let the bar management handle any loud customers. She was perfectly in her rights to refuse the help of some random guy coming up to her.
As for “probably had no business putting handcuffs on her and even less business carrying his gun into a bar” it may go deeper than you think. Cites I’ve seen state that he is a Class III officer. From what I can see in South Carolina Class III officers are “law enforcement officers with limited powers of arrest or special duties.” I have no idea what duties this guy performed. From this cite the state Attorney General says "In 2009, that office cited a U.S. Supreme Court ruling that determined a Class 3 officer like Derrick is limited in his law enforcement authority, and “without statutory authority to detain a suspect until another officer arrives…”’
Oh and a pet peeve of mine:“…Mirandize her…” This isn’t TV. Miranda does not come into effect until there is going to be questioning. There is no need to give Miranda after an arrest. It doesn’t matter in this case since it wasn’t a valid arrest, but people get that wrong all the time.
This thread should be in the pit.
I wonder though, does an off duty officer have the legal authority to arrest someone if he (the officer) is under the influence of alcohol? Because that’s kind of fucked up if he does.
I think that’s one of those things that the courts would be reluctant to make a bright line rule on. Any alcohol? Legally drunk? Somewhere in between? When it comes to off duty responsibilities policies vary greatly. In some places there is a duty to act regardless of duty status. In some places cops are required to carry a weapon off duty at all times. In other places neither are true. So how do you juggle a duty to act against being out and legally having a few drinks? I don’t know if there is one set rule you should make. You could come up with 100 different scenarios and reach 99 different answers.
Have you ever, on TV, in your job, watching other people, ever seen or had to twist someone’s arms like that? To the point where bystanders will come over and help hold the person up because it looked like her arms were coming out of their sockets? I agree that it may take some force to get someone in cuffs and keep them under control but I think even you can see that he went above and beyond. I think they said at one point she even knocked over a table with her face or chest because she was bending over from the pain he was putting her in.
BTW, did we ever find out why he put her in handcuffs?
From what I’ve been able to find he was probably okay to carry his gun into the bar as long as he wasn’t drinking, if he was drinking he’s probably looking at a $2000-$3000 fine if he gets charged for that.
A few years ago a friend of mine almost lost his bar over something like this. The sheriff at the time was of the ‘a cop is a cop 24 hours a day’ type person. A ton of off duty cops showed up at his bar, drank a ton, rode around in the streets on the hoods of cars, basically acted like a bunch of frat boys. When he tried to kick them out at bar time they convinced him to stay open ‘We’re cops’ they said, ‘don’t worry about it’ they told him…he had to explain that to the judge. When a bunch of cops say that it’s okay to break the law…
Almost every time when someone resists. Except most people aren’t that bendy. Try it with someone. Have them resist you without throwing a punch. Make sure they don’t half-ass it. Try to cuff them (or simulate). After you cuff them have them resist, pull away, flop on the floor. On multiple occasions its taken us at least 4-5 officers to carry out a handcuffed suspect. Handling even a passively resisting subject requires quite a bit of force. People are conditioned to expect it to look like it does on TV. It does not.
That’s very local so I don’t know. The cite I gave said that the AG was looking into it but it may be a matter of local policy. If its local department policy there isn’t a fine. I’d have to see a cite for it being illegal.
The bigger issue is that as a Class III officer it appears he did not have the authority to arrest* at all*. He doesn’t have the statutory authority to detain anyone.
I don’t even like portrait photos.
This is the AG opinion in question. It is unclear to me if the case SC alluded to was an actual police power case on detention by a police officer with limited powers??
I still can’t find out what he was actually detaining her for. I’ve found more articles that are saying (disturbingly) that he hit on her, she turned him down and that’s when he went and got his cuffs/gun/badge. At least one of the articles mentioned that he felt her up quite a bit during the ‘arrest’.
Sounds to me like there was nothing at all legit about this. He was just pissed off and roughing her up.
Here’s another article/video
http://www.policestateusa.com/2013/drunk-off-duty-deputy-tried-to-arrest-female-soldier-at-bar-when-she-resisted-his-advances/
What was he planning to do? He didn’t call anything in, didn’t take her anywhere, didn’t question her, he just detained her…for what?