Oh my fucking god. I cannot stand the far left

[Atamasama]

@BigT

I seem to remember them coming up in another Pit thread.

This one.

Roger Waters is a tankie

At least, that’s the impression one gets from his interview with CNN today, in which he claims, among other things, that Russia is only invading Ukraine to defend itself from NATO aggression, that Joe Biden is a war criminal for not encouraging Zelensky to capitulate, and that the US deserves no credit for winning WWII because the Soviets had already won the war by the time they joined, and the US would do the same thing Russia is doing if Russia put missiles on our borders. (Gee, I coulda sworn…

[Alessan]

@BigT

I don’t consider tankies to be left leaning. They are just nationalistic for Russia and/or China. They may also have some left-leaning views, but that aspect of them isn’t on the left.

Do they consider themselves leftist? And if so, should you and I define what they are, or should they?

Myself, I take people at their word, at least when they voluntarily define themselves as radicals. They call themselves far-right, they’re far-right; they call themselves far-left, they’re far-left.

Not all Scotsmen eat Haggis.

[Spoons]

@Odesio

I’ve met a few of them over the years, and you’re correct that they are a minority of those we’d consider leftist. Like @Der_Trihs said, they typically view anything the United States does as evil, will brook no negative talk about the USSR, Cuba, or China, and use the word liberal as if it’s an insult. I’ve seen more online than I have in the wild, but when you meet one of 'em in real life, oh, boy! Yeah, some of them are apologists for the Soviet Union’s actions gobbling up Eastern Europe after WW II. They were just defending themselves against the West.

I’ve met a few of them too, most commonly when I was doing my undergrad in the early 1980s. You know, when the USSR was deploying SS-20 nuclear missiles across its European interests, and the US was testing nuclear cruise missiles in northern Alberta. Calling those folks liberal was an insult to them, they preferred to be known as “socialists” or “communists” or some kind of other “–ists,” but whatever, they obviously did not like the status quo. The United States is evil, the USSR is peace-loving, it places missiles only to protect itself against the evil, imperialist, USA, which exists only to project capitalism across the globe.

Fun people. Like hell they were. They were insufferable dogmatists, who couldn’t talk about the weather, sports, or local events. Everything was the USSR vs. the USA. The irony? We were in Canada.

[stui_magpie]

I didn’t realise the US had any far left characters, but I agree with the OP as we have plenty of those types in Australia, and probably an equal number of far right whack jobs. Thankfully both types are in the (noisy) minority.

The US, from afar and from talking to people when I’ve visited, is at core a centre right country. The Democrats have slight left leanings in some areas but to read them described by Trump etc as Commies is just laughable.

I hope you can do something as a country about ensuring everyone has equal and free access to health care and education and that social security actually works for those who need it, but I don’t hold out many hopes for you. Your culture is to ingrained.

For the record, I’m considered right wing. In the USA I’d be considered a left wing commie.

[Charlie_Tan]

@Wesley_Clark

Ask them how they feel about the fact that Islam originated in Saudi Arabia, then violently colonized the greater middle east, forcing people to convert to Islam by force. Afghanistan used to be buddhist. Iran used to be Zoroastrian. Syria used to be Christian.

You really, really, don’t know any history.

The four countries you mention are modern constructions. They were not national entities in any way we’d recognise. As for the religions of the respective region, no, not even close. Syria was not Christian, even though there’s a demonym called Syriac Christianity. There was no forceful conversion to Islam in Iran, since Zoroastrians where labeled Dhimmis. As for Afghanistan, at the time of the Muslim conquest, the region had a hodge-podge of religions. Yes, Buddhism was one, Along with Hinduism, Christianity, Judaism.

@Wesley_Clark

Then ask them how they feel when Israel broke free of Arabic Islamic colonialization and created a free, secular Jewish state.

You think of pre 1948 Palestine as an Arabic colony? Oh dear.
BTW, to put secular and Jewish next to each other is… bizarre.

You claim to be left(-center) but your talking points seems to be from Sebastian Gorka.

[chappachula]

@eschereal

There are far leftists who approve of the spread of Islam? Most of the leftists I know would be happy to see Islam (and most other religions) soundly kneecapped.

But those same leftists proudly support Hamas which is committed to spreading an Islamist state “from the river to the sea”.

These are the people that Bill Maher has described as believing that it’s okay if you call for killing Jews, but don’t you dare call them by the wrong pronouns.
Or watch the first 10 seconds of this clip, where Maher offers a suggestion for all those demonstrators wearing keffiahs

https://youtu.be/uRzv0HgatRc?

[Gyrate]

Note to self: buy stock in straw. It’s clearly a booming market at the moment.

[Ulfreida]

I’m so far left that I can see the edge of the earth from here. I don’t recognize anything about me in the OP description. I do recognize the sadly common state of mind of many politically active newly-minted adults, who have yet to embrace the uncomfortable truth that politics is nothing but gray areas and nuance and complex history, and all we can hope for are better compromises.

Something the OP also appears to have trouble with.

[Alessan]

Well I’m old enough to have learned that no matter what I believe in, no matter how good and pure I think it is, there will always, always be people on “my side” who are complete and utter wankers. That’s the thing about assholes: everyone has them. Just accept it as a part of life and move on.

[Gyrate]

Yes, the lunatics and assholes will always be with ye, to paraphrase that Jesus bloke.

The main difference between the loony left fringe and the loony right fringe at the moment is that the loony left fringe remain a marginalized minority, whereas the loony right fringe run the GOP.

[Alessan]

@Gyrate

The main difference between the loony left fringe and the loony right fringe at the moment is that the loony left fringe remain a marginalized minority, whereas the loony right fringe run the GOP.

And not just the GOP.

[Knowed_Out]

I only know one person who could be described as “far left,” since one of his mottoes is “Abort 'em all and let God sort 'em out.” But, he typically says shit like that to shock people, regardless of political intent.

[Maserschmidt]

This is the kind of thread that surprises me, because I can tell a lot of you people have interacted for years, and there are grievances and history in play, but they’re mostly invisible to me. I recognize many of you, but not the OP, and not some of the other respondents.

With respect to the OP, maybe I’m on Twitter too much, but I definitely recognize the liberal vs leftist divide, and have similar frustrations, though I don’t know that I agree with all his characterizations. My experience is that online, self-described leftists generally…

1. Insist on distinguishing leftist vs liberal, with liberal meaning (to them) neoliberal, as well as “normie”.
2. Believe that voting for the Democrats is just as bad as voting for Republicans, or even worse because you’re giving in to blackmail.
3. Support Maduro, and sometimes Assad, and sometimes Putin.
4. Mostly associate with the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA); you can often tell them by the red rose in their Twitter bio.
5. Use the phrase All Cops Are Bad, and appear to truly believe it.

Those are generalizations, I’m aware, but opinions often are, and god knows I’ve spent too much time on Twitter. (though I’m getting better)

[MrDibble]

@Wesley_Clark

Find a far leftist who hates imperialism and colonialism

Raises hand

@Wesley_Clark

The issue is they only hate these things when white, judeochristian, western capitalists do it.

Wrong.

@Wesley_Clark

They either don’t care or actively support imperialism and colonialism when anyone else does it.

Wrong

@Wesley_Clark

they only care when in-groups do it. Once the out-groups do it they either don’t care or are in favor of it.

Wrong

@Wesley_Clark

Ask them how they feel about the USSR imposing an imperialisitic empire on eastern europe

Go ahead, ask me.

@Wesley_Clark

once eastern europe was able to escape they ran to join NATO.

More power to them.
Estonia is a fun place, I know that.

@Wesley_Clark

Ask them how they feel about the fact that Islam originated in Saudi Arabia, then violently colonized the greater middle east, forcing people to convert to Islam by force.

I feel the same about that as I do about the Teutonic Crusades and the Inquisition:
Religions suck.

@Wesley_Clark

Then ask them how they feel when Israel broke free of Arabic Islamic colonialization

Sorry, I was unaware that the British rulers of Mandatory Palestine was Arabic and Islamic…

and created a free, secular Jewish state.

Ha ha ha ha ha!
Good one!

@Der_Trihs

they consider "liberal a huge insult, basically synonymous with “fascist”

@Spoons

Calling those folks liberal was an insult to them

I’m a very far leftist, but neither a tankie nor campist, and I consider anyone calling me a liberal to be woefully misguided. If they persist, only then does it goes into the insulting realm.

[kayaker]

I stay out of their arguments, but my sister (a MAGAt) accuses my brother of being a socialist, or even a communist, thinking it will embarrass/shock him. His reply is that if you’re going to give labels, he’s actually a marxist.

I sit back and laugh at them.

[BigT]

@Alessan

Do they consider themselves leftist? And if so, should you and I define what they are, or should they?

Neither. We just look objectively. Tankies support authoritarian countries, and authoritarianism is (far) right wing. Thus, in that particular aspect, they are not left wing.

The OP here attacked the “far left” when he’s apparently only concerned with a tankie he interacted with. Hence a lot of people who aren’t tankies got offended.

It’s misleading to say “far left” when you’re referring to tankies. People misunderstand your meaning.

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

@Velocity

At the end, it is Horseshoe Theory. A portion of the far-right and far-left will end up being oddly similar.

Horseshoe theory is dumb, because it posits a one-dimensional political spectrum in curved space. Try a two-dimensional space instead: one axis is left-right, and the other is decent-asshole.

There are assholes everywhere. Some political movements draw almost entirely from assholes (Hi Nazis!), but I’ve yet to encounter the political subgroup that’s entirely decent people. There are even asshole Quakers, which sounds like a sex toy.

The worst leftist asshole I ever met was a White guy in his late teens who, over a watermelon breakfast, told me that when the revolution came, not only would the bankers all be up against the wall, but so would their children. He was entirely serious, and made me real glad that he’d never amount to anything in life.

They’re out there. They do not control leftism in the way that Trump controls the right. They’re mostly young and stupid, in my experience, but some of them grow up to be stupid old assholes on the left.

But horseshoe theory is horseshit.

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

@BigT

Neither. We just look objectively. Tankies support authoritarian countries, and authoritarianism is (far) right wing.

Wait–Stalin was right-wing?

[BigT]

@Left_Hand_of_Dorkness

@BigT

Neither. We just look objectively. Tankies support authoritarian countries, and authoritarianism is (far) right wing.

Wait–Stalin was right-wing?

Well, he wasn’t actually left-wing. He pretended to support Communist and Socialist ideas, but was really a dictator. The proletariat were not in charge in USSR, nor were they equal.

Dictatorships are a right wing concept. Having a single person with ultimate power is authoritarian. This idea that we need someone to rule over us is just the same concept as the absolute monarchy. And right wing came from the concept of being pro-monarchy.

At the end of the day, people supported Stalin for the same reason they support Trump. They want a strong man to be in charge. Hence why you also see them supporting Putin and Xi, when neither country practices Communism. They’re both very much capitalist.

Support for dictatorships is right wing. It is, in fact, far right. Even further right than mere authoritarianism.

[Thudlow_Boink]

@Left_Hand_of_Dorkness

There are assholes everywhere. Some political movements draw almost entirely from assholes (Hi Nazis!), but I’ve yet to encounter the political subgroup that’s entirely decent people.

Yep. It would be very surprising if the humorless unrealistic extremists, idiots, and assholes were confined to one end of the political spectrum—although, as you note, the very idea of a one-dimensional political spectrum is a fallacy.