The Problem With The Left-Wing (polically)

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Neato.

They’re all in New Mexico?

The Problem With The Left-Wing (politically)

We are bunch of self-righteous cunts.

We don’t discuss things with our opponents we browbeat them.

We call them simple and convenient names like racist or homophobe and dismiss them as such.

The fact is that many people on the left (by the left’s definition) are one, the other, or both.

I use the word queer, (Burroughs gave me permission) I use the word queen, (thank you Freddy Mercury) I use the word flamer because I’ve heard a number of queer folk call themselves that.

I don’t use fag because most of the queer folks of my acquaintance don’t like it.

I dislike flamers. I don’t think Pride parades need to be an expression of the gaudiest stereotypes that straight people have about queers. I think it is counter-productive.

Therefore I am homophobic.

Any meaningful discussion of gay-rights gets derailed because, while I entirely agree with full and equal rights for all, I dislike certain expressions of it.

That doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be able to express themselves. I does mean that I’m allowed to say, “nope, don’t like it.” <— the form of expression.

The same thing goes for race.

I think that white people are the exact equal of non-white people.

But I also think that if you subjugate any group of people and , overtly or tacitly, force them to live in conditions of privation some of them will turn bad. Stats say that the less opportunity and the fewer options a group has the more likely they are to abreact.

This makes sense.

But to acknowledge this fact makes me a racist.

The left likes labels.

We do this because we like to be holier than thou and it is simpler.

The problem is that we get so caught up in labels and holier than thou that we miss the forest while intensely studying a tree.
Those on the right unite behind a person or group because they see that even in their particular issue isn’t “properly” addressed the person/group will help a gradual drift toward what they want. They are content with that because they are not concerned with "I’m right, you’re wrong!

They are concerned with “Give it a couple of years and I’ll have my way.”

We need to smarten the fuck up and accept that our allies don’t agree with everything we say. We need to adopt the gradual drift philosophy and we need to stop demonizing everyone that doesn’t agree with our particular view 100%

We alienate our natural allies because we want to force them into multiple highly restrictive holes that they would easily fit in were they not so rigidly defined.

In short we need to stop being so damned self-righteous and concentrate on the greater good rather than our individual conscience.

TLDR Left=good but self-righteous Right=bad but pragmatic.

Zeke

I buggered up and needed to beat the edit window

Thanks Daddio :slight_smile:

Is New Mexico a left-wing hotspot?

That explains “I should have taken that left turn at Albuquerque.” :slight_smile:

Sorry all, fucked and, in trying to beat the window, fucked up again.

Zeke

we?

To the extent that what you say is true, it’s true of both sides. The left does not have some exclusive claim on self-righteousness.

Well done! You matched the character count of my first, fucked up, post*.

Care to elaborate?

You’re correct (I avoided right :slight_smile: )

But the right wing seems to be able to put aside their specific differences for the sake of the gradual drift.

The left doesn’t seem able to do that.

Left wing politics has seemed to become a matter of who can demonize the other the most.’

The right seems to take the tac of, “well, he’s wrong on that but right on other things… he’ll come around.”

*to be fair mine two and yours was the - if you include the “?”

I’m thinking you may have missed a few things recently, like say, Trump and the massive shit fit the Republic leadership is having. I would say the right wing seems to be the opposite of pulled together regardless of differences.

Hey, Zeke - you know who gives a shit about your opinion of gay pride parades?

Not one single fucking person on God’s green Earth. We’re not holding them for your benefit. You don’t like what goes on, you are more than welcome to stay the fuck away from them.

Speak for yourself.

The OP seems to be more like a strawman liberal that somebody invented in their mind.

I’ve never heard any actual liberal, for example, deny that some black people are criminals. Pointing out that fact certainly doesn’t make you a racist and won’t get you accused of being a racist.

And you’re free to dislike flamboyant gay pride paraders all you want - as long as you don’t succumb to the illusion that they need your approval.

You seem to be coming from the 1980’s this the 2010’s were the right is demonizing not only their political enemies, but they are drifting into demonizing science also.

Woman’s question to Trump: “I’m a volunteer with a leading conservation voters group and we want to know about what your plan is to reduce pollution that is driving climate change and endangering public health.”

Trump: “That’s an interesting question. Let me ask you a question… Ok, so we have global, let me ask you this, ok to [hissing and some boos from the crowd] take it easy… How many people, how many people here believe in global warming? [Turns around looks for hands up] You believe in global warming?
Who believes in global warming?
Who believes in global warming?
Raise your hand, nobody?
One person…”

This is worse than ignorance, it is malpractice. Even professional “skeptics” tell us that global warming is happening but is natural, so the answer should had been yes, but we got not even that from Trump or virtually all of the Trump followers in the town hall :smack:

What fake skeptics and many Republicans deny is the climate change the warming brings and that it is caused by humans. And as the lady asked, this is very important, as public health and even the public itself will be affected more in the future.

This is precisely what I’m talking about.

I say that I’m a huge fan of equal rights for all but I, personally, don’t like the in-your-face-ostentation of the parades. And look at the vitriol.

For the record:

1)I’m hetero but I got gay-bashed for hanging out with a queer (his preference)

2)We have taken our kids to EVERY pride parade and event - except the socials -that our city has hosted

  1. I don’t give a fuck who you do it for.

  2. See, I bet we agree on 99% of things but this one thing causes you to become hostile. This goes directly to my point.

Yay, you used more letters this time!

Woo-Hoo!

Zeke

I’m ignoring you now.

Certainly no liberal has ever said no black people commit crimes. But we always follow it up with some white people commit crimes (incidentally I’m from an area that black people are not the brutalized underclass - natives are.)

The point is that to say that natives are over-represented in the criminal justice system is not due ENTIRELY to the justice system’s systemic prejudice but rather to the circumstances to which they have been subjected opens up accusations of racism.

The fact is that natives in my town tend to more violent and criminality prone than white people. I think the reason is that white people are assholes and we fuck them over.

But the second that I acknowledge the disparity I’m a racist.

No different than Miller’s attack.

BTW I feel the same way about Pride parades as I do about Mardi Gras except that at least Pride has a purpose.

So what do you want, a cookie?

Nobody in this thread, including Miller, has called you a racist or a homophobe.

But it’s still early days. Don’t give up. Tell us more about these “natives” …

Let me clear something up for you. If you go around saying things like this, then the reason some people are calling you racist is because you’re saying racist things.

If you say some natives in your town are violent criminals, you’re probably right (I don’t actually know what town you live in and what the crime statistics are). But if you say natives, as a collective group, are violent and criminal, then that’s racism. Same thing if you say something about white people as a collective group or black people as a collective group. When you judge the entire racial group by the actions of individuals, it’s racism.

So now you know.

Sad for me :frowning:

Not in the least.

I got thumped because a friend of my is gay. Such is life.

I believe my kids should grow up thinking that you should judge people on their personality rather than their colour or orientation and the best way to do that is to expose them to different cultures. That, to me, is responsible parenting.

I figure that if you are going to dislike someone do it based on them and their actions rather than their colour or orientation.

Certainly not!

Nor have I said I’ve been accused of it.

I pointed out the vitriol in Miller’s post as speaking to the hostility that allies face when they deviate from the accepted line.

What is racist about saying that we have degraded a specific group of people and they have abreacted to it?

If anything I am placing the blame on my fellow white people for inflicting these things on natives. Look to any place on Earth and you will see that the oppressed people have a higher degree of criminality, poverty, addiction etc.

It is not racial, it is not cultural it is circumstantial.

But that doesn’t change the facts resultant from that.

But I never did that.

In fact I made a point of saying that a)natives (here) tend toward more violent crime AND b) this is a result of their circumstances (that I acknowledged were caused by white folk) have left them with fewer options and opportunities.

The criminality is circumstantial not racial.

I say now and forever, “No matter the colour, gender, orientation or identity people who are consistently shit on will behave in accordance with their circumstances.”

If you can’t earn an honest living you will earn a dishonest living, If you are treated as lesser you will behave as lesser.

The responses I’ve gotten thus far pretty much affirm my thesis.

We, who believe in social justice, cut our own throats by trying to be more progressive-than thou.

Zeke