By way of background, I live in a very small neighborhood - 49 houses on one street. Prices range from $106K-$140K and the lots are tiny for the most part. I happen to have one of the 3 or 4 large lots, and I don’t think I’ve got 1/4 acre. Last February, we got a lawn service contract to weed and feed our yard - they come out every 6 weeks and spread or spray their magical stuff. But it’s Florida and there are lots of weeks everywhere.
Back in May, the board “inspected” our lots to make sure we were in compliance with the covenants. Incidentally, there’s nothing in the covenants stating they’re supposed to inspect. Anyway, they wrote us up for “noxious weeds” in our yard, in accordance with covenant 6.4 in here page 4, halfway down. You can believe me when I say that nowhere in the covenants is there a definition of noxious weeds. So I googled.
The State of Florida has a comprehensive list of noxious weeds, which I forwarded to the president of the association last year. His response was that they’d use “common sense” when inspecting. You can see where this is going. None of the weeds in my yard are on the list, but I was gigged, and told that if I didn’t take care of it by July31, I’d be fined $100 per week. Based on their “common sense” - I don’t think so.
I fired off an email to the ass of a president pointing out that I had a lawn service and I had sent a copy of the contract to the association to prove it. I mentioned that this is a working class neighborhood, not a country club, and that some of us don’t have hundreds of dollars to spend on our lawns - it’s just grass! I also drafted up a note to my neighbors, with the website and the list, making my opinion known. I haven’t distributed it yet, but I’m ready.
I also happen to have two friends who are attorneys. I’m pretty sure they’ll dash off a letter for me at little, if any, charge. I’m also sure I’m in the right here - how can they levy fines based on some nebulous “common sense”? It’s not like my yard is hip-deep in dandelions. It’s kept mowed and edged. It’s landscaped as far as my limited skills and budget will allow. It’s an ordinary middle-class house.
I hate this neighborhood. I can’t wait to get out of here. I may just put the house on the market now and live in a rental till the kid graduates. GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
I’m not too familiar with this. What could they do if you simply refuse to pay the $100.00 fine? They can’t evict you out of a house that you are paying a mortgage on, can they?
Creative_Munster;
I’m on the homeowners assoc. board for my condo. I’m not sure how FCM’s rules are set up, but if someone refuses to pay the fine we give them, we can take them to small claims court and eventually place a lien against the future sale of their home, even their tax return. On the other hand, we actually have to use the specific rules of the hoa, not just “our common sense.”
BNB, that’s what the note that I drafted is for - it’s pretty obvious which yards have weeds and I’ll leave a copy of the note at each of those houses. I’m going to wait and see what the association president has to say first.
Some asshole in my subdivision attempted to establish an HOA last year. The wife and I did a little research on them. Basiclly, by joining one, you forfeit all rights of a homeowner and they can screw you blind!
We, as a neighborhood, got together and stomped this dickweed a new asshole and told him where to stick his HOA.
Get out, while you can!
She told me I was terribly handsome. Was that an insult?
That right there is why I won’t live in any new development going up these days. Why back in my day, I had at least an acre to play on! knits furiously while rocking on rickety front porch
I hope you escape soon, sanity intact. What are these HOA’s going to cite people for next, a bird pooping on their driveway?
When we bought the property in Maryland where we intend to build our retirement home, we made sure the neighborhood didn’t have an association. In fact, our realtor lives there and he said there’s a violent hatred for associations among the neighbors. YAY!
Damn straight HOA’s suck. I think we’d hang any idiot who tried to establish one out here. (At least in my neck of the woods. All bets are off for new developments.)
Really, they exemplify the worst instincts of mankind. They go from the old suburban ‘keeping up with the Joneses’ to ‘let’s make sure the Joneses have to keep up with us’. It’s the same damn instinct that led to ‘gentlemen’s agreements’ 100 years ago to not sell to blacks or latinos.
Fuckers. Slam them FCM. Use lawyers, guns and money.
Or tell them if they’re that concerned they’re welcome to buy you out.
Homeowner’s associations are the bane of present day civilization. Don’t be fooled into thinking otherwise. They’re like the ‘ultimate busybody from hell.’ Enjoy!
That HOA agreement of FairyChatMom’s has over 900 pages??? Jesus H. Christ in a chariot-driven sidecar!! Please tell me it’s not true.
If your “weeds” are not listed in the state of Florida’s noxious weed list, and the HOA agreement doesn’t specify what such weeds are, I’d think they haven’t got a legal leg to stand on, if you want to have a pissing match in court. A well-worded letter from your attorney friend(s) likely would have a very beneficial effect in getting them off your case.
Anyway, Jackmannii, that’s my thinking exactly. Once I hear back from El Presidente, I’ll either get on with life, or call the lawyer.
JC, right about now, I think I’d gladly sell and just find some place to rent until the kid graduates in May. I really regret letting my husband talk me into building here. We should have bought in our friend’s neighborhood - she was the prez of their organization, and she didn’t fret about anything.
But try it…just to see their reactions. Tell them you’ll sue but if they really want those weeds out you’re willing to sell to them and a ‘reasonable’ appraisal.
Then bribe the appraiser. Trust me…it’s not that hard to do.
Damn skippy. But where I live, you didn’t get a choice. You got to join the HOA upon move-in or not move in at all.
We’ve recieved SEVERAL letters about the state of our lawn, too, FCM because CG and I don’t mow it every week, or sometimes even every other week. We’re lucky if the grass gets more than 2 inches high and we don’t get a letter about it.
HOAs are the devil. It’s like living inside a Borg cube sometimes…We are the HOA. Resistance is Futile. You WILL be assimilated.
Sorry your HOA’s being so ridiculous, FCM. By all means, get one of your lawyer friends to send them a letter, demanding that they either (a) both (i) specify which particular noxious weeds you have, and (ii) enforce the weed rules equally stringently on all homeowners in the community, or (b) cease and desist with any attempts to fine or threaten to fine you.
That ought to get them to shut up.
IANAL, but:
The way HOAs generally have power is by pre-existence - that is, the developer set one up as part of the creation of the community, so the powers of the HOA, and the necessity of joining, were part of the covenants bound to each lot at its creation, and pass with it forevermore.
My understanding is that if you and your neighbors aren’t already subject to a HOA, but some of you decide to form one, it has exactly the authority over each lot that each owner decides to sign over to it. (Which means ‘none’ if you’ve got a brain, of course.) Just because a bunch of people in the neighborhood decide a community pool and tennis courts would be nice, and decide to set up a HOA to create and run them, that doesn’t magically give them the authority to decide whether anyone’s house or yard is up to their standards.
Or if it does, please explain to me the legal legerdemain by which this happens.
Sheesh. HOAs can be a pain in the neck. But so can unreasoned hysteria, thankyewverymuch.
My sympathies, FCM. The neighbourhood we are renting a house in has a HOA - all the hassles of home ownership without any of the freedom! One of our neighbours painted his front porch purple (NOT one of the acceptable colours in our pastel neighbourhood) - I admire his gutsiness.
I’m no lawyer either, but I am a general real estate appraiser and as such I have to have a general working knowledge of property rights, and you’re exactly right to the very best of my knowledge. When you buy a home, the deed explicitly states what property rights you have and to what covenants and restrictions they’re subject. Any reduction of these rights has to be by your own hand (with the exception of eminent domain issues… though I’d just say that’s just another restriction that came with your property rights in the first place) If the rest of the numbnuts in your neighborhood decide to form an association, bully for them. You don’t have to encumber your property with their covenants if you don’t want to, although they of course can decide you don’t get to use their crappy neighborhood pool. I live in an older subdivision and was in exactly that situation: some of the busybodies decided to form one, and I decided not to opt-in. They occassionally forget this… but the law is entirely on my side.
I also agree that without a proper definition of “noxious weeds”, and certainly considering that their “common sense” definition is contrary to “common usage and definitions,” they don’t have a chance in hell if you protest the lien in a court of law. It’s a pain in the ass, and you shouldn’t have to go to court to contest frivolous liens, but there you have it.
Jonathan Chance: you actually bribed an appraiser??? Must be that “residential appraiser culture” I hear so much about… anything goes with those guys! Personally, I don’t think there’s an amount of money anyone would be willing to pay me that I would accept considering the risk of having my license permanently revoked. The penalties are still more severe if I certify the appraisal conforms with USPAP and FIRREA, I believe there’s jail time involved. Any HOA that doesn’t catch that the appraisal isn’t certified would have to be pretty incompetent, too… I can also guarantee you if anyone tried to bribe me, every last one of my appraisin’ buddies would hear about it and be warned not to even consider taking your job.
FCM, if you want, I’ll help you get back at em. I’ll be glad to come down and sit in your front yard in a lawn chair wearing this really hideous shirt that has flowers and dragons all over it (whatever possessed me to buy it I don’t know), a pair of plaid shots, black socks and sandals. I’ll sit out there all day. As an added bonus, I’ll drink beer and belch loudly at certain intervals.
Trust me, they’ll take “noxious weeds” over that any day.
