EJs Girl, and everyone else: Mr. Rilch is coming home in an hour or two, after weeks on location, so I don’t have time to find cites. I’ll get back to you though.
I admit that the media sob stories are what really get to me. Maybe I should have stated that earlier, but remember, I started by saying that it was a Net article that set me off.
I’m not denigrating all people who get fertility treatments; I’m just talking about people who stubbornly try again and again and again, and don’t consider another option.
msrobyn, you have my deepest sympathy.
I don’t think I’m being cruel, or ignorant. There are thousands of children, in this country alone, who are waiting, often in vain, to be adopted. Am I an ignorant fuck because I find that sad?
I have a cousin who was adopted after her nominal mother miscarried. They tried so hard to make it up to her. Of course they never made her feel like she was second best just because she wasn’t their real daughter. She was very very lucky to have been chosen. Did she realize that? Did she realize how many children were suffering in foster homes? She spent 18 years trying to be Miss Perfect so they wouldn’t send her back. Naturally, she dropped out of college to marry an abusive jerk.
It’s really the attitude that adoption is something you settle for and not a viable option until you’ve burned your life savings on fertility treatments, that burns me. Okay?
Maybe Mr. Rilch and I will make a baby this weekend. Then you can all say “HA-ha!”.
That is exactly why, in 1968, my parents adopted me they had my brother but wanted another child and couldn’t conceive one. Many infertile couples adopt because they want another child to call their own. I know of at least two other people that had been adopted, why? Because their parents wanted more children but couldn’t have any.
casdave, I don’t know what you are thinking because the two do intermingle on a higher level than you think.
I feel like this attitude of “why don’t you adopt instead of trying fruitlessly to concieve on your own, there are too many kids out there who need you to adopt them, don’t be so selfish” is very close to another attitude that has been debated on this board- the “breeders” calling people who don’t want kids names, and those who choose not to bear children calling the breeders names.
If I want to try again & again to concieve a child, STAY THE HELL OUT OF MY UTERUS. Don’t try to make me feel like shit if I don’t want to adopt a child. Go right ahead if it’s important to you, but don’t denigrate my choices just because they don’t agree with yours.
BTW, I am a very fertile girl who has no trouble getting pregnant, and I thank God for it. I would never presume to know the pain & hard choices that people go through with infertility. Whatever your fertility situation, I think it is a very personal issue.
Should more people adopt? Of course, there are kids out there who desperately need parents to care about them. I can’t tell you how many of the kids my husband prosecuted (& sent away for a long time) came out of the foster system. But adoption is also a very serious thing, and the choice should be personal and the committment strong. I have a good friend who is a twin, both she & her brother were adopted by a couple who already has two kids. Their straight mom & gay dad were very loving & supportive people. Of course, had dad been out at the time of the adoption, the kids might never have known that love and care, but that’s another issue for another thread.
msrobyn, I thought a lot about what you wrote, and you are a brave woman to share your story on the board. Thank you for saying it.
Cranky, thanks for pointing out something that drives me nuts in the parenting magazines. These mothers that are carrying high risk babies ( Multiples or genetic situations) and choose praying on the situation rather than sound medical advice make me want to scream. The authors choose to write about the 5 ( or whatever) success rate in that feild not the failure factor. And when I write failure factor, I mean the babies that are born with severe impairment or handicaps because Mommy and Daddy decided to take a chance with the odds and lost. No one likes boo hoo stories in eternally optimistic magazines, but living with reality is a bitch times 100 and then some.
Speaking of that, has anyone heard/read anything about the McConoughy (sp?) septuplets/metropolis that are now, what, two years old? (The family of seven babies born in Iowa) Last year I saw an article and a couple of the kids were on oxegen. I wonder how they are doing development wise.
As for the OP: What drives me nuts about this whole * I can’t get pregnant boo fucking hoo[/i[ crusade is:
Every couple now seems to relish telling everyone their personal dramatic experiences with infertility. Am I the only person left who thinks this is just too personal and too close an issue to hear about over dinner conversation?
When I read in Parenting Magazines the stories of couples paying something like $60,000 to get pregnant I just want to strangle them. After they conceive, they are more thank likely so much in debt that they have to stuff the Golden Child into daycare to pay off the loans and work twice as hard to break even. I mean, what would be the point as they will never see said child. To me, it seems like it is selfish, self absorbed wealthier white folks trying to reproduce themselves. Like we need more of that.
3)For Primaflora who said *But in the event of my never carrying to term, I would not have adopted. I don’t want to be an adoptive mother. I don’t want to deal with the baggage of adoption * .
Are you referring to the legal paperwork, I am assuming or the mental baggage that may or may not surface with the adoptive baby in the years down the road?
Actually, Shirley, they are turning three in a few days, and there is a full hour devoted to them tonight on Dateline (9 p.m. central).
I have a question relating to a small bit of the OP: Is artificial insemination and IVF the same thing? If not, what is the difference? I just received an update from my insurance company that they are now covering up to six courses of treatment for artificial insemination.
Rilchiam- please tell me that you just never got around to posting some back up information on your original statements.
You do have some, right? I know how it is when you haven’t seen your husband in a while, but I can’t stand it when people post inflammatory comments with no back up.
the ‘chance to parent’ is a very poor reason to have a child, imho. a child, whether natural or adopted, shouldn’t be a cure for some emotional need on the part of the parent. what if the child doesn’t fill the void? that’s a lot of pressure to put on someone.
a child should enter a home that is happy and stable - not one in which happiness and stability depends on the child’s presence. and especially not one in which having a child has become an all-consuming obsession.
Artificial insemination is a (relatively) simple procedure in which semen is inserted directly into the woman. It’s generally used if the problem is more with the husband (i.e. low sperm counts or impotence) or if donor sperm is used. When people talk about sperm donation, this is how the sperm meet the egg. (I assume someone sat you on their knee and explained Where Babies Come From.)
IVF (in vitro fertilization) is the “test tube baby” procedure. A woman’s eggs are removed, placed in a Petri dish and are fertilized with semen. After there are one or more embryos, a few (in case of miscarriage, this increases the likelihood that the woman will carry at least one) are implanted in the woman’s or a surrogate’s uterus, where the pregnancy continues as normal.
If your insurer is covering AI, consider yourself lucky, since not all insurers cover any kind of infertility treatment.
And zwaldd, what do you think is the basis for wanting to adopt? In my parents’ group (they’re considering adoption of an older child), there were a few couples who were apparently in it for purely altruistic motives. The social worker said that in her experience, those adoptions don’t work well.
The desire to parent is what makes families work. You can’t just bring a kid into a family and not expect anything. Parenting is a skill, and if you don’t want that skill, you’re going to have a fucked-up kid living in a fucked-up family. Further newsflash: In this age of contraception, MOST kids are born when the parents want them to be born.
We’re human, and we can’t take emotions out of the equation. Doesn’t work that way.
Sorry it took me a while to click on this thread again. I was referring to both the process of adoption and the mental baggage. I didn’t want to jump through hoops to adopt - I was in NZ where there are not thousands of babies in fostercare waiting for homes. I know someone who waited a decade to adopt, and was offered 6 babies, all of whom the mothers decided to keep at the last moment. She was eventually successful and adopted a baby with special needs. I would have gotten on with my life rather than go through years of that kind of struggle.
The mental baggage that goes with adoption, even open adoption is not something I would voluntarily pursue either.
Can I make it clear that I am speaking for myself here? It implies no judgement of anyone else’s choices or decisions, it is just how I personally would have chosen to deal, if I had not been blessed with living children. Eventually.
Rilchiam, are you ever coming back in on this? I don’t want to judge, since Coldfire and casdave seem to think highly of you, but I think the comments you made in the OP were deliberately inflammatory, and you may have simply pulled them out of your ass with no basis in fact, since you have not seen fit to provide any basis for your opinion. Even an “I heard it on Oprah” would be a start.
I don’t think I can take you or your thread seriously.
I will defend, to a minor extent, my gratuitous insults directed at Rilchiam. They certainly weren’t necessary, and my mother would be deeply disappointed, but they did reflect my disgust after reading the OP, and also effectively conveyed that, regardless of Rilchiam’s points, I condemned her attitude.
As for the “primal urge” - the jury is still out. Sure, generally speaking, people like to have sex because it feels good. However, there are all these little kickers in human physiology and behavior that lead me, at least, to believe, that reproduction is fundamental. Examples: During the first year of life, a child looks more like the father than the mother. It is believed that this is because the father needs to be reassured the child is his before he will support it. Next, (and I don’t have any cites for this, it may just be received wisdom), the truly telling blow for men in relationships is if they find their woman has slept with someone else; for women, the fundamental problem is when their man has forged an emotional bond with another woman. This is linked into reproduction - men want to know that the child they are supporting is theirs, while woman want to make sure the man stays around to support their current or future child. Finally, I refer back to the study, mentioned in my earlier post, of how children fare when in the house of a non-biological parent.
I was making a larger point with the near-sightedness analogy. If there is a technological/medical fix to a medical problem, people shouldn’t have to remain blind or infertile simply because that was the way they were made.
Absolutely, Rilchiam’s not all wrong. I think I made that pretty clear in my earlier post. Given a choice as to which medical problem to cure, infertility would defintely come below malaria, and would probably barely beat out acne. Further, given a choice between curing infertility and making sure all orphans are adopted into loving homes, I’d take adoption. However, just because infertility is not a great problem in the grand scheme of things doesn’t mean it’s not a heartbreak for those who suffer from it, and doesn’t excuse Rilchiam’s contemptuous attitude towards those who have this problem.
Nicely done reply there, Sua. (Why are lawyers such good writers?)
#2, in particular – I didn’t know (hadn’t heard) about babies looking more like dad in the first year. In my case, that’s right – their baby pictures were a perfect match for dad’s baby pics. As the kids grew older, they started looking more like me. (Poor things.)
My personal experience with this is limited. I grew up with adopted friends who were much-loved by their parents, so to me, adoption works just fine.
You did a better job than I did of looking at the other side of the issue.
You can go ahead and kiss your mom with that mouth – I won’t tell her what you said.
Stating circumstances upfront: I am childless. Due to a fluke medical condition I knew from a very early age that I could not carry a pregnancy even close to safe levels. It has never been a loss or lack for me. Coulda been early acceptance; I dunno.
So maybe that colored my thinking, but it’s never been a tragedy or a lack in my life. I don’t live a childless life: I’m proxy aunt to some of friends’ kids, and I’m surrounded by kids at work. I love 'em, but it never grieved me that home didn’t have a child in it.
Most of all, it doesn’t bother me in the least that no child of my body will ever exist. Truly, this bewilders me on a visceral level. Sure, I love my family and think I’m pretty spiffy, too, but there’s absolutely nothing soooo exceptional that demands heroic measures. Frankly, every kid seems miraculous enough genetic mix. Seems like comparing snowflakes to me.
I do reluctantly make some distinctions between ability and right when it comes to reproduction. Can’t say I’m thrilled having my work health insurance go up by 25% due to 3 couples having unlimited IVF treatments. If that’s selfish, it’s also realistic.
Reproduction isn’t a right. Unfortunately, some people–and I’m one of them–can’t. Maybe I accepted too early and easily, but the world is awash in children who need parents. Turning this issue into a political sound-byte is obscene.
But the damning obscenity is the number of innocent kids thrown away by adults. They’re children; color, circumstances and background be damned.
Maybe it comes down to this: people can wish and pray for children of their own bodies. Give it a few medical tries and then accept if the answer is “no.” Those heart-destined for parenthood may find their prayers may be answered in the form of their child out there who’s been waiting for them.
Judgmental? Maybe. But I’ve done my heart searching and paid my dues. (Answers may differ; check oracle for details.)
All right, EJsGirl, for gossakes, I read about it in Newsweek. Can’t find the issue. As I said later in my post, it’s really the media for which I have contempt. If you have contempt for me, that’s how it is. This is the Pit, yanno.
Thank you for your post I hope evrything works out for you…
and to the origanal poll poster
wow..some people are so stupid..I have fertility issues my husband and I have been trying 2 conceive for almost 6 years now…how dare u say that Im not meant to be a parent..who do u think u are? we have looked into adoption and it is very expensive…dont u dare say then if u cant afford to adopt then how can u afford a child..we both work and have a nice home thats paid for but we arent rich we cant afford 50,000$ or more to adopt but that doesnt mean we wont be great parents..I swear some people have no common sense at all.. may God have mercy on your stupidness cause I sure wouldnt
Since this thread is nearly old enough to be in junior high, and contains highly emotional posts from people who are no longer on the board, I’m going to close it.
And then I’ll take a minute to reflect with gratitude on the fact that most of the drive-by posters who resurrect these things don’t hang around enough to ever make a second post.