Thanks, I found a few clips there, but their video site is a pain in the ass to navigate.
Ha! I was playing Civ IV last night too! Damned vikings! I’d eliminate them, but it would take more effort than I want to expend on Ragnar right now.
One thing that really bothers me about watching Hillary in the debates is that she demands attention. Instead of following a debate format, she just jumps in and starts talking whenever she feels like it, regardless of weather she’s interrupting Obama or a moderator.
ETA: Ugh, and the faces she makes too. They just seem so obviously forced that it’s ridiculous.
She forces a lot of emotion during the debates, she appears to really l have to dig deep to force a smile, unless of course it’s to belittle an opponant or a moderator.
I thought Tim Russert was spot on and was really gunning for Clinton.
This morning ABC, and CBS all reported a win for Obama. They all said if that was the top of Clinton’s game it’s not going to be enough, and Obama out performed her while delivering a message that his judgement is better than hers, and that his judgement will change the face of Washington. I agree.
Did anyone catch Obama’s quip about talking of Clinton as she is basically already done? Speaking of her campaign in the past tense? Is that just reading into it too much?
If so, that would be a dangerous tack to take. He doesn’t have it in the bag yet, and in this politically-lazy country, giving your base any reason not to come out and vote isn’t the smartest thing to do.
I usually don’t participate in political threads as I don’t have time for actual debate, but here is my (and my wife’s) $.02:
My wife was leaning Obama. She is now in the Hillary camp (not that it matters for the upcoming elections, what with us living in TN).
I, too, thought that Hillary won the debate. She was in command of many of the details and facts surrounding the questions (excepting the Russian president question, of course) while Obama offered up far fewer specifics. She did better responding to tough/embarrassing questions than Obama did (who I think totally flubbed the Farrakhan question and looked, at the beginning, that he was caught completely flat-footed “Um, er, well, um I do, I don’t…” ) and she didn’t back down. To be honest, he hemmed and hawed too much for my liking.
I think the experience factor (at least political/debating experience) showed quite a bit in this format as Hillary had no problem expressing her point while Obama had difficulty interjecting unless asked to by the moderators. That time when she was talking about her health care plan and he kept trying (and failing) to interrupt was telling: who wants a President who will allow the conversation to be dominated by the opposition?
Obviously, my wife and I watched a different debate than everybody else. 
I didn’t hear him do that. At one point he statrted to say “…after I’m nominated,” then quickly caught himself and changed it to “IF I’m nominated. We still have a lot of battles left and Senator Clinton is a tough opponent.”
That was the only instance I’m aware of where he came close to appearing as if he assumed he had the nomination in the bag. Did I miss something?
Human perception is different with every individual. However, watching two different national news networks this morning, and two different political pundits, each said Obama beng the front-runner, won the debate in staying calm and reflecting good judgement in his responses.
Not sure how last night’s debate could have swung an Obama supporter to the Clinton Camp, but hey - opinions vary.
To me, this is another point that turned me off. She wouldn’t even let the moderator talk when he was trying to take them into a commercial break. That doesn’t seem assertive, to me; it seems downright rude.
I’d point out that both candidates were aware that they were on national (hell, international) television and Obama was minding his manners and keeping composure rather than simply raising his voice and yelling louder than Clinton. There’s really no reason to take from that that Obama would meekly sit and let Medvdev do all the talking in negotiations or whatever.
Most people felt that the first quarter/third of the debate was Clinton’s weakest and least presidental but you apparently saw it otherwise.
Personally, I thought Clinton flubbed some of her personal questions, especially about releasing her tax returns & Library documents. She “doesn’t have time” to release her tax returns? C’mon – that’s something you do with a single phone call. She was obviously feeding the American people a solid line of bullshit with her hedging “Maaayybbeee I’ll release them before the 4th…” remarks.
My wife’s #1 issue is health care and last night’s debate reminded her of how long Hillary has been championing universal health coverage. And she (my wife) wasn’t a “supporter” so much as she was “leaning” towards Obama.
I understand that viewpoint but in all fairness she already had her shot at it in the 1990s with a more Democratic Congress and a spouse in the White House. She took the ham-handed approach then and couldn’t sell it to her own party. I’m sure she’s passionate about it but I’m not sure she knows how to sell it.
Yeah, again, this is just one of those things that differs from person to person. Frankly, I don’t really care how anybody makes their money and Lord knows the Clinton’s finances have been scrutinized enough so that, to me, knowing 1 particular year’s worth of tax information isn’t that big a deal.
I don’t want to follow you around and sound like I’m badgering you, JohnT, when I’m just adding to the conversation so I’ll start by saying that I respect you and your wife’s choice to vote for whoever you’d like.
On health care, I do want to see something happen to get anyone covered who wants it. I personally don’t think Clinton has a chance in hell of getting a mandate plan past the Senate unless an Act of God causes the Democrats to win a filibuster-proof majority. Which isn’t going to happen. But, for as long as the Republicans can filibuster “Socialist HillaryCare”, per plan is going to die on the vine. Obama’s plan isn’t likely to be embraced but I see an “opt-in” program having a significantly better chance of passing than a required mandate plan.
Clinton would either be forced to shift her plan to be closer to Obama’s or else spend four years and still be no closer to reforming health care and insuranc ein the United States.
Good point, that.
However, I don’t think the country would’ve adapted any approach to universal health care back in the early 1990s no matter how well sold. Today… it might be different. And health care issues is definitely something that Hillary has the “experience” factor in her favor.
(To be honest, I’m going to vote for the Dem regardless of the nominee - and I was a Gingrich Republican at one time!)
She did that at the last debate, too. Talked right over Campbell Brown and excused herself by saying that it was very important issue for her. I can sympathize with her feelings while still wishing she’d stop doing that. It makes her seem impulsive and on the verge of losing control just as soon as someone criticizes her baby (i.e. universal healthcare).
I think Obama won, but I’m not going to pretend to be 100% objective. Hillary toned down the Joker smile, which was great albeit late. I liked all of Obama’s answers. He might have been a little sharper on the Farankhan question (“some of my best friends are Jewish!”…not exactly smooth, BO), but when Hillary tried to needle him some more on it, he came out the winner by making her point look petty and semantical (and not to mention, I was bothered that she even interjected an anecdote about herself in there…it smacked of begging for praise for doing something that would have been her political death had she not done it).
And Hillary did look bad when she complained about being asked questions first. Again, I sympathize with her feelings because I notice that the media do seem to favor Obama (at least CNN and MSNBC seem to), but couldn’t she have handled that off-camera or something? Let her people actively float the idea to the public that she’s being treated more harshly in the debates, so that makes her look more sympathetic? She handled that like an amateur, not like a smooth professional.
I was less worried about the money than the fact that she was transparently straight-up lying to the audience when she said the reason she hasn’t released her tax returns was a lack of time. She hasn’t released them because she doesn’t want to release them now. Why she doesn’t want to is up to anyone’s guess.
You might want to remind you wife how long Hillary’s been failing at bringing about (her version of*) Universal Health Care, and to think about why. It isn’t a concept everyone agrees with, for many fundamental reasons. Therefore, the only way anyone is ever going to get even close to reforming the system towards “universal” coverage is by negotiating and winning hearts and minds.
Hillary is simply incapable of doing that on this issue. In her opinion, it’s her way or the highway. That’s exactly the attitude we’ve been putting up with for the past 7 years, and an attitude that is guaranteed to sink her plan yet again.
If your wife truly cares about reforming the Health Care system in America, her best and only hope for that is to support Barack Obama, who not only has a plan more likely to win over many of his Republican colleagues, but who also has a reputation for earning their support and votes during his 11 years of Legislative experience.
(*She even made a slip in last night’s debate, saying “nearly everyone” as opposed to the firm “everyone” she’s been claiming for months now. I wish Obama had caught and called her on that.)
Yeah, I rolled my eyes at that one too. “You don’t have time to pick up the phone and tell some flunky ‘do it!’?”
(And I somehow missed the part about “I always am asked the first question”. Don’t know how that happened. A few days here in GD would teach her never to speak in absolutes! )
I thought Obama answered the Farrakhan question admirably. It was probably my favorite moment in the whole debate. He gave the right answer, just not the one people want to hear.
- Jews and Blacks worked together on Civil Rights
- He supports Israel
- He doesn’t agree with Farrakhan
- Rejecting Farrakhan for liking him is silly
- Ok, ok, I’ll play the dirty political game for the cameras, ‘I denoject Farrakhan!’
After number 5, he had a cute smile on his face, like someone who loosened up and danced when he really wanted to but felt sheepish to do so. I can understand not wanting to dismiss Farrakhan the man while being willing to denounce particular views. Hate the sin, love the sinner. Obama seems to really apply a lot of Christian values to his modus operandi.