The use of the Star of David as representing Judaism is modern. It has no known religious significance. Originally, its use was associated with kabbalism (basically, magic), and for this reason some religious Jews do not use it.
Its use was, basically, popularized by the early Zionists exactly because it was not an established religious symbol - as the Zionists were, by and large, secular ethno-nationalists and had no truck with putting known religiously Jewish symbols (such as the menorah, or the twin tablets of the law) on their national flag.
I have established that the Star of David has officially been designated as a religious symbol by three different branches of the U.S. military, which means that the U.S. government recognizes it as a religious symbol.
No. If a soldier marks down that he is an atheist, then the symbol for atheism will be put at the gravesite, not the Star of David. I don’t recall their being a question about tribal origins on any paperwork I filled out for the military.
Simply put, many if not most Jews will mark themselves down as “Jewish”, whatever their theological beliefs.
Certainly, if they so choose, they can mark themselves down as “Atheist” instead. If they bother to do that, no doubt they would get that nifty atomic A symbol.
What you do not understand, is that many Jews consider themselves Jews, even if they are not religious at all. The fact that the paperwork does not seperate out religion and tribe is confusing you.
I’m not confused at all. I am trying to point out that the U.S. government, despite the fact that it also represents the Jewish tribe, officially recognizes the Star of David as a religious symbol.
Note that the insignia includes the twin tablets of the law, which are exclusively religious symbols. Why include them, if the star does the job? Because it doesn’t. The star isn’t religious.
The star is included no doubt because it represents Judaism, specifically to non-Jews (that was it’s original function when it first came into prominence - to mark out Jewish places of worship) - not because it is, in and of itself, a religious symbol.
No, the paperwork doesn’t separate out religion and tribe. In fact, the paperwork doesn’t concern itself with tribe at all, and merely asks what religion you follow or, if you do not follow a particular religion, what group’s symbol you would like on your tombstone(if any).
None of the evidence you have presented is persuasive.
Tombstones - as stated, that argument must fail, because the US government also recognizes the symbol for atheism. Obviously, such “recognition” isn’t intended to convey religious status.
Chaplain insignia - as stated, the insignia contains express religious symbols - the twin tablets of the law - surmounted by a star of david. The star isn’t “religious”, it is simply intended to say “Jew” to those who may not recognize the twin tablets (which are, in fact, legitimate Jewish religious symbols).
This is handwaving. What would it take for you to say, “Yep-that actually shows the Star of David being used as a religious symbol.”? Apparently, finding it on the insignia of a Jewish chaplain just isn’t good enough for you.
You are misreading me. That is exactly my point. I acknowledge that the paperwork doesn’t seperate out religion and tribe. That is why Jews, religious or not, will (in general) pick “Jewish”, even if they are not religious in the slightest.
Only those Jews that feel very strongly about their atheism are likely to want an “atheist” symbol rather than a Jewish one on their tombstone. For one, it would represent a direct rejection of their tribe, which most Jews do not want.
To my knowledge, it isn’t a religious symbol. I could be wrong about that, but I’d require some sort of actual evidence that it is one, not something as meaningless as the fact that it is worked into the artwork of some military insignia.
BTW, are you ever planning to deal with the fact that your “tombstones” evidence contains the atheism symbol? Isn’t that “evidence” just as strong?
I have presented facts and links to facts. What you give here is nothing more than speculation based on…what? What cites do you have that Jews that are atheists will overwhelmingly choose Judaism when asked by the military? Where do you get the idea that choosing to put down “atheist” on the form represents a direct rejection of their tribe in the mind of the person that does so? As long as we’re working on blind speculation, why couldn’t the person filling out the paperwork be thinking to herself, "It’s asking for my current religion, not my tribal identity. Since I no longer believe, I’ll go ahead and check the box marked “atheist”.?
The atheism symbol is for those that do not believe and do not wish to hide that fact. It is a symbol, but not a religious symbol. This little diversion is as silly as the argument in another thread about how wanting to have an atheist “Chaplain” is an admission that atheism is a religion.
:dubious: My statements are accurate as far as I know. And I don’t recall saying anything else on the subject in the last few days. Search fails me as well.