Adequate for whom?
This is where the debate separates. There are, and always will be people that need full size cars. Or 4x4 or SUV’s or trucks.
A car the size of a Prius will certainly not serve all of our transportation needs. It certainly couldn’t meet mine.
I will say that the hybrid is a move in the right direction. But, don’t think that a small hybrid would work for everyone.
You misunderstand I fear. I was not trying to claim expertise but more see what information you were looking at.
Rapid oil price rises really didn’t surprise the people I know in fuels forecasting at all, mainly because they do not really even care about trends that last less than a quarter, and for some fuel stocks they don’t re-adjust predictions until a year has passed. Since the Iraq invasion and the issues with arguing over lease rights and pipeline issues in the Caspian area, petroleum prices have been too volatile to predict what will happen month to month.
I mean, a similar situation exists in the Eastern US over a sudden increase in coal prices too, which I’ve posted about elsewhere and won’t put on here, and I still get calls from clients saying “OMIGOD, Central App is going to be $70 a ton now, what will it be next year?” and I say “Wait.” I can’t predict what they’ll be month to month or quarter to quarter, but I can do a fair job at annual numbers.
Oil prices staying high will not, IMHO, change nuclear adoption one bit, which I feel is sad. Once again IMHO, unless they go above $100-$150 a bbl and stay there for a year or more, there are not the economic drivers. There’s too much infrastructure needed to handle a huge shift to electric vehicles and plug-in hybrids to apply the pressure needed to build plants. Remember too that these plants take between 5 to 12 years from decision to grid, depending on a variety of factors. So the case has to made that this is it, long term, we need those plants.
Which I do think we do. Even if I get not $1 of additional work from them, I still think we need nuclear now, to take the edge off GHG production (coupled with massive biomass and conservation efforts.)
I worry that no greenfield nuclear plant in the US has yet had the experience of facing the organized and incredibly hostile group of environmental lawyers ready to sue the utilities into the Stone Age the first time a permit is granted. Lawyers and environmentalists might very well end up removing our last hope of reducing greenhouse gases substantially, given that conservation is still a dirty word.
If oil prices stay above $100 a bbl, however, bio-diesel and bio-oil come into play big time, which I really would look forward to. Once again we come to the issue of infrastructure and the other issue of finding enough sources for the biomass. And then we have the issue of GM crops to produce the bio-oil…
Why not? It’s not a subcompact. It’s almost as roomy as my Camry. It gets better gas mileage, not because ot its size, but because of how the engine works. And, of course, it is possible to make gas-electric hybrid SUVs and pickup trucks, the same size as existing SUVs but more fuel-efficient.
There exists already an Escape hybrid, if I’m not mistaken.
Can I get a 4 x 8 sheet of plywood into a Prius? If not, it’s too small for my needs. How about a lawnmower? A new sofa or chair? A desk for the kid?
SUVs are UTILITY vehicles. Anyone with a family will have times when they dearly wish they had a vehicle that could haul large things. The reason SUVs are so popular is that they can have such a vehicle while still being able to haul five to seven people - something you can’t do in your average pickup truck.
But you’re right about hybrid SUVs and pickups. And in a lot of ways, they are even more practical than small hybrid cars, because a small hybrid car does not represent a quantum leap in mileage over equivalent non-hybrid compact cars. A Prius is not substantially better in gas mileage than, say, a Toyota Echo. But a hybrid Ford Escape gets almost double the mileage of a non-hybrid version. The new Lexus RX-400h not only gets 30mpg in the city, but it has over 400hp available, making it one hell of a performer as well.
GM has a hybrid pickup coming they call the ‘contractor special’, and it leverages another major strength of hybrids - the ability to act as remote power generators. The contractor special has 110V power plugs near the tailgate, and a diesel engine that can run 24 hours a day if necessary. Drive it to the worksite, and once there you can use it to power tools, heaters, etc. This is a huge advantage for contractors and workers at remote sites.
Vehicles like the contractor special and the RX-400h are why hybrids are going to take off. They’re hybrids that are actually better than their non-hybrid versions. Faster, more powerful, with new useful features. AND better gas mileage.
Vehicles like the Prius are not the future of hybrids. They are niche vehicles that require compromises in performance or size to achieve their high mileage, and therefore will generally appeal only to a small subset of the car buying public. But when you can put a hybrid motor in a sports car and make it faster than almost anything else off the line (the Mitsubishi Eclipse hybrid), or make a touring car that has double the range of a non-hybrid equivalent, or a worker’s truck that has better performance and 110V power, then you’re offering consumers real advantages over and above the extra mileage.
Not all of us have all paved roads, and during the winter this white slippery stuff from the sky falls down and covers this non-paved roads. A Prius does not have sufficent traction, nor clearence for many roads around the country.
Some of us also live in areas where large game animals roam around, and for some reason decide to go up against a passing car/SUV. Such a colision could easially total a Prius, but for a pickup truck, you just have to get the fur off the bumper - well if you want to clean your truck that is.
Well, that’s the real problem. But one of the reasons I think nuclear has a chance of making a comeback is that I think there is beginning to be a change in the environmental movement in favor of nuclear. Whether that will stop the radical elements from pursuing their strategy of death-by-lawsuit is unclear, and your fears are probably valid. Sigh.
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Can we do bio-diesel with any reasonable energy efficiency?
The 2002 Echo gets 34 mpg in the city, 41 on the highway, 37 combined. http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/17633.shtml The 2003 Prius gets 52 in the city, 45 on the highway, 48 combined. http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/18608.shtml The 2005 model does even better – 58 mpg in the city. http://hybridcars.about.com/od/toyotaprius/fr/2005toyotaprius.htm
Of course, the availability of the Prius, or other, larger hybrids, won’t make a significant dent in our national fuel consumption any time in the next five years, maybe longer. At present there’s a waiting list to buy them; most cars being made, and practically all on the roads, still use the older technology.
Besides all of the great reasons that Sam mentioned, there is another one that is being overlooked. If I get into an auto accident, I want to win. If I’m in a sub-compact, the chances of injury are likley greater than if I’m in, let’s say a full sized SUV.
Brainglutton said:
Well… I’ve read that in the real world the Prius isn’t getting anywhere near EPA mileage estimates. And you’re comparing city mileage only, where the hybrid does the best. On the highway, for example, the Prius gets 51mpg, and the Echo gets 43. In percentage terms, that’s not much different.
Another factor is weather. I really wanted a hybrid Escape, but then I discovered that you lose a lot of the benefits of the hybrid powertrain if A) you’re running the heater, or B) you’re running air conditioning. In Canada, that means the engine will be running full time on about 90% of days. Plus, it’s unclear how hybrid batteries will perform if it’s -30 outside. Given those limitations, the relatively small differences in combined city/highway driving between a Prius and an Echo aren’t worth it, especially when you consider the significantly higher purchase price.
Anyway, we agree more than disagree, and I’m a big fan of hybrids. They’re going to change the way we think about cars, and for the first time we can make meangingful improvements in fuel economy and emissions while actually improving the performance and utility of vehicles. That’s the holy grail, as far as I’m concerned. Hybrids also give us a path to the future - we can move from straight hybrids to plug-in hybrids to pure electrics as conditions warrant.
My understanding is yes but only on a small scale. If we use waste materal such as used cooking oil then is it efficient (energy and material). When you start using virgin materials then the costs go up due to the cost of the material, not really energy.
Hybrids do very well in the city, but those are the people who likely have public mass transit systems and don’t need cars at all. Many do only hwy driving so the benefits of the current hybrids are not as advantagous. For someone driving 20K a year the difference in fuel is about 44 gal/yr. The cost difference between the hybrids vs conventional just is not cost effective, and will never be because if fuel costs go up so much as to make that 44g/y difference pay no one can afford to drive. This doesn’t include the cost of replacement batteries, not the disposal of the batteries.
I think hybrids are more expensive than conventional cars for the same reason recumbent bicycles are more expensive than upright bicycles – not because they’re inherently more expensive to make, but because they’re relatively new, just starting to penetrate the market, and economies of scale have not yet driven down the price. But that could change.
Yep. We looked closely at the Escape back in ’02 (not a hybrid at the time). Didn’t like the linkage on the suspension. Particularly, the rear end. That’s one of the reasons we went with a Grand Jeep Cherokee. Solid axles, front and rear. Sadly, that seems to be a way of the past.
That whole Ford/Firestone fiasco has made Ford completely redesign the suspension on the Explorer. It may have a ground clearance of 6" now. Absurd. And to no ones fault but the drivers that rolled an Explorer.
Before I buy a new vehicle, I spend more time under it than in it.
When we shop for a vehicle. We shop. It took 18 months to decide on the Grand Jeep, and we couldn’t be happier with it.
When a manufacturer comes out with a real SUV or truck that is hybrid, I’ll look at it.
From the ground up.
Good point, and right now there is a supply/demand issue which will hold hybrid prices high.
Absurd, perhaps yes perhaps no, it depends on who you are selling the car too. Many of these SUV’s are bought by people who would never take them off (paved) road.
Well said and interesting. Despite almost completely agreeing with you, I still want a Civic Hybrid as my next car. I’ve had two Civics in a row ('98 and '04) and I love them (decent looking, well-built, and very practical.) I guess I’m one of those niche buyers.
Kancibird -
3000 PSI in a SCUBA tank is 80 cubic feet of air in a bottle that is about 3’ high and 9" in diameter. About 25lbs.
Hmmm… Now I’m just wondering is all… But I think, that a IC engine at say 3000 rpm would use that up in a flash.
And, I don’t think that a bottle of compressed air is the best thing to be carrying around in a car. Especially, when you also carry gas. Just sayin.
I do like your point that the engine would go to 2 stroke, and that the compressed air would feed through the entire stroke.
Very interesting idea. What is the best way to store energy? That’s what we need to look at.
What I think your basic point is that hybrids needs what is known in the computer industry as a ‘killer-app(lication)’ or a reason to switch. I don’t know if the contractors special would qualify as you have the problem of having to leave the SUV on site as a dedicated generator instead of using it to haul material. It seems cheaper to buy a conventional SUV and a generator. The contractos special sounds like a good emergency response vechical however.
I can actually see this “contractor special” as more attractive to the farm set than the contractor set. Contractors frequently have to run around picking up this and that during the working day, and if every time the boss runs off you can’t use the saw, that would really suck. In cases like that, a dedicated portable generator is more attractive. But for the farm set, remote power is needed only sporadically. Now lots of farmers have generators, but there are lots who don’t, too. And boy I can tell you there are times you break down out in the field and would really like to be able to use power tools (sure, you can bring a tank of air and use pneumatic, but a single tank of air doesn’t last long). If your truck has the ability built in, that’d be a real bonus. Stick a 220V plug on there too, though, so you can run the welder.
Kanicbird----
Where in the world did that come from? I’m defending people I don’t know here because the anti-SUV folks seem to missed the turn and completely gone round the bend.
The truck with a power supply is not that bad of an idea. I’m not a contractor myself, but I often play one in real life.
No one said anything about leaving the truck overnight on site. And no one would.
Do you know anything about the need for 110, or 220v at a construction site?