Ok, if I shouldn't _shoot_ the intruder, then...?

Now that was funny. :smiley:

You’re still better off with a pistol.

The first few pellets will pierce the drywall and be shoved out of the way.

ETA: With a pistol, and rounds designed for home defense, you’re unlikely to have the same issue. Hollow points will fracture and possibly even shatter.

And, never a problem. I’m always happy to share my knowledge on firearms.

“…I always assumed they used birdshot with a decent spread and a short range of lethality…”

Just for information—the size of shot used does not affect the spread of shot. #9’s do not spread wider than BB’s (another shot size), nor the various buckshot sizes. It is just another misconception from the movies. Also, a short barrel does not affect shot spread–unless about 4 inches barrel length, a ridiculous length. Birdshot is not as lethal as buckshot----true, because of the size of the projectile.

I have shot more than 20,000 rounds of shot-shells in ~20 years of skeet competition, at a bare minimum. A competition event usually involves at least 100 rounds per gauge, plus practice. Believe what I post in-re to shotguns.

What does? When I was a kid, I fired the 16 ga Ivers Johson my Aunt gave me at a piece of plywood with birdshot at maybe twenty feet. There was a cup sized hole in the board, surrounded by holes becoming less and less dense, out to a few a foot from the center.

Choke.

ETA:

I have to disagree on this particular point.

I’ve shot everything from 18" to 26" shotguns, and there is a definite difference in the spread for shorter guns. It’s not “omg three feet!” difference, but there is a difference.

I’ll believe you, I didn’t mean to imply that the shot and the spread were related. If I were getting a shotgun for home defense, I would load it with birdshot and not put a choke on it. That’s all. I can’t aim worth shit, and I don’t want buckshot flying through walls and hitting kids across the street. Birdshot should be lethal enough at 20 feet to make it effective for home defense, would it not?

Heh, I never would have thought that reading body language would be considered a magical technique. Usually it’s used to DEBUNK the idea of magical techniques.

Yes, it would.

Officer: So you couldn’t tell anything by the way he was acting?

Bill Gotta Gun Fish: Well he was running away across my lawn screaming like a girl, but I wasn’t sure if he was gonna rape my wife or kill me or something. I just had no way to know! I mean HE CAME INTO MY HOUSE!!!

“… Birdshot should be lethal enough at 20 feet to make it effective for home defense, would it not?..”

Possibly. But go to a bigger shot.

Number of pellets per ounce: BB - 50, 2 - 87, 4 - 135, 5 - 170, 6 - 225, 7 1/2 - 350, 8 - 410, 8 1/2 - 497, 9 - 585.

BB’s, at the very least.

I don’t think Bill said anything about shooting a burglar in the back when he was running away in the lawn and obviously not a threat. I’m not rereading the thread to be sure, so you’ll have to point me to the part where he said that.

See, when billfish678 did it, it was funny because of the element of truth. When you do it, it’s lame and comes off like a little kid saying “I know you are, but what am I?”

He’s a mind reading ninja! :slight_smile:

Well then what’s his point then? Those are tells, reasons not to shoot a man. Maybe I just shouldn’t expect that people I am discussing things with are actually reading my posts, since my particular example of someone’s ‘tells’ was someone running out the door with their back to you.

Scumpup Anyone who thinks reading body language is a mystical art is a fucking moron. If what he says is funnier to other morons so be it.

And I disagree with you. I have shot many patterns, and there is no measurable difference in patterns. The idea of a 3’-5’ blast at 10’ is pure Hollywood. As is being knocked down by the recoil of a 12 gauge.

I shoot 26" to 30" barrels–better swing on a longer barrel.

False Dilemma.

  1. Don’t shoot intruder.

  2. Shoot intruder in the back.
    Option 3, which you’ve obviously completely failed to make room for.

  3. Person is in the living room of the house, you are in your room (master bedroom), and children are in their rooms. The rooms of the children are on the other side of the living room. You walk into the living room to ensure the safety of your children. You see him turn quickly, and it’s relatively dark, you can’t see whether he’s trying to grab a weapon or just trying to run.

I shoot. I don’t want to take the chance he might be grabbing a knife/gun/bat/crowbar/etc and might be orphaning my (extremely theoretical) children.

In shotgun lingo, those are called “flyers”. Usually attributed to the shot on the outside of the shot cup. They rub against the barrel when fired, and become distorted. The non-spherical shape causes them to “fly”.

Maybe you forgot the scenario laid out in the original post. See, here I was arguing based on the original post, that the hypothetical burglar was heading for the door.

What you’re doing is shifting the goalposts by introducing new scenarios as if they were part of the argument from the beginning. I already said long ago in this thread that there are situations where you are justified in shooting a Burglar. But the scenario as described in the OP IMV did not warrant shooting the burglar. Because his behavior ‘tells’ said that he was trying to escape. Again, as outlined in the OP. In the OP, he is running for the door with a TiVo in his hands. So what is it? Does he have a TiVo/Purse in one hand and is reaching for the door with the other or do we assume that he is going for a weapon?

Maybe you missed the part where it’s a threaded discussion?

If you’d quit referreing to blantanly obvious observations as “tells” people would quit laughing at you so much.

“tells” refer, almost by definition, to SUBTLE behavioural clues. If you can slow time, see in the dark, ignore the addrenaline in your veins, read minds, and properly interpret THESE kind of tells and are willing to risk you and your loved ones lives on this skill HAVE AT IT.