Yes.
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I can’t be the only one who’s disappointed that this thread wasn’t titled “Why was the “Why was the Twickster ATMB thread closed?” closed?”
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I also think that there is no way to please everyone given the current rules. Being a mod here is kind of like being potus (without the secret service protection). No matter what you do or say, there will be a vocal minority who says “Wtf!! You should have done B instead of A, you moron!!!”; another vocal minority will defend the choice of A instead of B. And a silent majority who don’t think it’s that big of a deal or don’t care.
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I recall recently getting a mod note for calling someone a motherfucker in the pit (shit happens in the heat of the moment some times). Anyway I got the old “don’t do this again”…which is exactly what Twickster did to herself for her transgression in the thread in question. Certainly, there are other cases where people have been issued official warnings for such language. Is it fair that some get warned, some get mere notes and some get completely overlooked? Nope, and neither is life. Get used to it.
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AFAIK the rule against pitting mods was not made by mods, they are merely enforcing it. That said, I think it would solve the problem (and add to the entertainment value of this site as well). But I don’t think that’s their call to make.
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All that said, it is obvious that I am not nearly as emotionally invested in this site as many others, so I’ll STFU now.
Wouldn’t that be a banned job?
That’s true enough; anyone who would become a moderator here has been here long enough to know that, too.
Quasi has put his real name in other posts, though. He’s not concerned about sharing it, and anyone who follows him regularly knows what it is. Could it have been that this was an insulting post why you removed his name?
Yup, there are a few comments in this thread that Quasi should have gotten a warning for his comments in the other thread. I can only imagine the shit storm that would have followed if a mod had warned him though…
I just looked for his name and removed it.
Last night I was trying to finish a piece of work and was not overly concerned with the board. That happens sometimes.
As to whether Quasi puts his real name in stuff elsewhere, I don’t know. There’s a gazillion posts a day and I do not see them all.
I do know we remove real life information and we discourage people from posting real life info.
Busy or not, did you really think the best course of action was to lock a heated thread with absolutely no indication of who locked it, why, or any sort of a resolution?
Even a very short “This thread is too heated to go on but I can’t devote the time necessary to handle it fully right now. It’s closed. Don’t discuss Twickster’s moderation further until I handle this in the morning. Thanks.”
Instead, we got silence. As usual.
But, since you’re here now, are you too busy now? Would you care to address the actual issues brought up in those threads, rather than just the tangential bad behavior brought on by your refusal to handle it in a timely manner in the first place?
I’m part of the silent majority, but I do care. I don’t think I’ve spoken up about a moderator decision ever, but I’ve been lurking at the Straight Dope since 2005, and I check every forum for interesting topics.
And for the past few years, I’ve been disheartened by the way some of the moderators respond to issues. 99% of the time, I think our moderators make the right call, and 99.99% of the time, I get where they’re coming from even if I would have decided differently.
That said, there’s (to my mind) this enormous culture of treating complaints with silence and misdirection, and threads get closed far too often, with the underlying issues left unresolved. Even when I agree with the original decision, I often think moderators respond poorly to questions, concerns, or complaints.
I’ve never spoken up before. Most of you probably don’t even recognize my user name. I can’t reasonably be dismissed as a “complainer.” And I think the silence from the higher-ups has directly lead to the quality of discourse in ATMB.
And, for the record, regardless of what the culture used to be like, I think moderators should be courteous and impartial when moderating.
FWIW, I appreciate your kindness in looking after Quasi, to the extent that you can. I doubt anyone would disagree that, given both his history with the boards and his health issues, Quasi deserves the best that can be done for him. And I am glad you and the other mods are ready to give it.
Now back to the regularly scheduled kvetching.
Regards,
Shodan
I for one think you handled the Quasi issue perfectly. Not an easy issue to deal with. Removing the personal information is also the right call. But never edit another’s post without making a note about why unless you want a shitstorm. When thread titles are changed I have always seen a note about it from a mod.
And I agree, that is some creepy shit.
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Should be edited.
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Certainly everyone will not be happy with a decision. But it seems that at least for the last few years whenever someone has a valid concern, big or small, it has been the policy to let the customers rant without answering their concerns in the hopes it will run out of steam and forget it. Not a good policy in my opinion.
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Whether it be a note or a warning doen’t concern me. Its the idea that a mod can mod herself does. The mod hat on and off thing can be tricky but it is usually handled pretty well. In this case another mod or admin should have jumped in. Since it didn’t happen a quick note in any of these threads saying it should have happened and will in the future would have been enough for probably almost all who feel as I do. The first thread would have died a quick death and no drama.
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I agreed with the rule. Any concerns about a mod can be brought up here. There is no need to call them names or spew venom. But the concerns should be addressed and not ignored in the hopes it will go away.
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I am not emotionally invested either. The original Twat post stood out to me when I saw it. The response also did. I was not angry but it was clear to me that it was handled wrong. It was also such a clear violation of the rules that I can’t explain why she didn’t know better.
One reason why I felt comfortable here has been the moderation. For the most part fair and even handed. If things were different I would leave. But every now and then somethings should be addressed.
I actually totally agree with this.
I agree too.
It also indicates that a professional, rational, and considered approach to dealing with board-related issues is actually possible. Unfortunately, that approach seems only to be applied selectively.
It’s much more akin to a condo board meeting, if you’ve ever been to one.
The biggest takeaway from this is that pitting moderation/moderators should be allowed. Then the mods in question can choose whether or not to participate in that, and the users get an appropriate place to vent, ad nauseam.
In general, ATMB threads should be a place where a person can always get an official response to an administrative question, and the threads should generally be as short and to the point as possible in order to keep a high signal/noise ratio.
This may sound harsh, but if a mod can’t stand the heat of being pitted by the disgruntled, they should just get out of the kitchen. Haters gonna hate, whether it’s in ATMB or elsewhere. Better it be in the Pit where it’s most appropriate and won’t get in the way of serious discussions.
Never been to a condo board meeting, but the Quasi issue is a perfect example of why uneven, unfair, not following the rules to the letter, modding can be seen as perfect or terrible, depending on one’s perspective. Some have weighed in that they think Quasi should have been officially warned, extenuating circumstances or not. Others think it was handled “perfectly” by doing nothing.
These are judgment calls and as such are subject to the judge’s perspective on the circumstances at hand, the judge’s mood at the time, and many other variables. E.g. if you call me a motherfucker and Marley happens along (and he is in a piss poor mood because he just got a speeding ticket and notice of an IRS audit, not to mention you annoyed him in another thread with your veiled racist remarks) you might well get an official warning. If however, you call me a motherfucker right after Marley got a stellar blow job and is happily smoking a cigarette (and additionally he knows you’re in the midst of a nasty divorce), he might let you off easy. With humans involved on both sides, things can’t (and shouldn’t) always be treated in a black & white manner—it’s just the nature of the beast.
I guess I sympathize with the mods because I have school age children, so I am constantly hearing “How come I’m getting in trouble for X, when she did X yesterday and you didn’t say a thing! It isn’t fair!!!”
I am happy to modify my reply and allow the mods to use it “When you’re a moderator, you can be unfair”. In turn, I’m going to try their stonewalling tactic and see if works.
All that said, I do think if you have issues you need to express, then have at it (& feel free to unleash the “you’re a brown-noser” replies). Not my intent is not to suck up nor to tell anyone they don’t have the right to express their frustrations… just trying to offer another perspective.
ETA: I am no way comparing people who complain about mod action to school children. The intent was to show that it is often impossible, unreasonable to expect rules to be applied exactly the same every time. Circumstances and human nature come in to play.
I. You are here now, and not addressing the situation at hand–even to deliver a “we are discussing it in the background and will inform you when there is consensus”.
II. You are neither the only administrator nor the only moderator, so your limited availability is insufficient to explain the poor handling of this issue by the mod team.
Your children are children. Dopers, almost by definition (given the no-under-13 rule) and practically in the main, are not.
Also, if your children are able to point out examples of unfairness in your parenting that you are unable to reasonably explain, then perhaps it’s not their complaints that are the real problem.
The issue in this situation is that a subset of dopers have given reasonable explanations for why they believe that A) mods should be held to a higher standard and B) **twickster’s **actions are actionable and shouldn’t be swept under the rug. When an adult to whom you are trying to sell a product and/or service offers you a reasonable, calm complaint, the absolute least you can do is make an attempt at a logical/reasonable explanation of the differences in the situation as you see them.
It says right on the front page:
So this is the place.
We don’t always respond to the complaints so readily. The reasons are varied, including not seeing the thread or the individual post.
Sometimes people just want to vent and we try to allow that. Posts that look like rants are best left alone. Nothing any of us can say to some of those posts would be suitable and would just open the door to more complaining. This includes postings that might usually draw a note or a warning – in the heat of anger people say things they don’t always mean and we try to give house room to that too.
If you have a grievance with a moderator this is the place to air that grievance. You’ll have a much better chance of getting a response if you come in and speak in a civil manner. If you come iin all hot and pissy we’re most likely to give you and the situation time to cool down.
Just because you have a perceived grievance does not mean that you can call up a moderator for a beating and they are obliged to show up for it. That’s not how this works.
Moderation is a human job, done by humans who have to look at the entire situation and make the best call they can based on what they see. I think mostly we get it in the sweet spot. Sometimes we’re off the mark. Occasionally we totally blow it. “Don’t shoot the piano player; he is doing his best.”
Actually I’m here intermittently because I have an actual active messy real life and I’m also trying to earn a living. I’m not on this board 24/7 or anywheres near it.
I have no clue as to what the other staffers on this board were doing. We don’t work assigned shifts. Like myself they have the same real life obligations that must be met as well as being here.
I’m sorry you feel we’re not sufficient to your needs.