I think it’s pretty widely agreed that France has taken a particularly poor approach to integration. This says a lot of France, but not necessarily a lot about Muslims.
If I were black and said that it would mean something very different from what it meant if I said it as a white person. I was speaking about my fellow males, whose experiences and backgrounds are similar to mine. I am also very protective of my wife and daughters. I don’t much like men as a group and I don’t trust them, as a group, to always be on their best behavior. I openly admit that I am a misandrist. Shit, I tend to be a misanthrope. Just say that I like dogs better than people, especially men.
And you were always the very picture of propriety? I am a better person now than I was as a drunken teen. I trust you are, too. Those jerks in Cologne will probably act better when sober, with more life experience, and with someone in authority to slap them across the snout with a rolled-up newspaper the next time they act badly. If things were as bad as people say, the Polizei dropped the ball, or they were ill-equipped to confront a crowd that large. I assume they will be better prepared next time, with plenty of rolled-up newspapers. Or truncheons. After all, first you have to get their attention.
This.
And this, since it’s much like something I said earlier.
And what’s your basis for saying that? Do you have any factual basis for the claim that expressing “Fuck the Pope” or any similar sentiment in Glasgow would put any person in any danger?
Out of curiosity, for those who are anti-alarmists about what happened, what’s your take on what happened?
“Nothing to see here”, “routine mob action, unrelated to the perpetrators’ culture of origin”, “prosecute these perpetrators, but otherwise continue current immigration policies as-is”?
In your opinion, besides prosecuting the perpetrators, should *anything *be done?
Never said that.
Most Muslims know that according to mainstream and traditional interpretations, there are conditions under which enslaving and raping non-Muslim women is Islamically permissible. Skeptic's Annotated Bible / Quran / Book of Mormon
Suad Salih, Egyptian professor of theology at the Al-Azhar University and director of the theological department at the Faculty of Islamic Studies for Girls says Muslims may capture non-Muslims as slaves and rape them as spoils of war- “they become the property of the army commander, or of a Muslim, and he can have sex with them just like he has sex with his wives.”
Do you have any evidence to back up your claim that “most Muslims” agree with Suad Salih in this? The aforemetioned Grand Ayatollah al-Sistani has issued a Fatwa where he clearly disagrees:
Most Muslims know about it because it is in the Koran, which is the direct word of God according to mainstream belief. Those majority who are neither ISIS supporters nor progressives have a variety of forms of cognitive dissonance, denials, and minimization. They don’t generally include full on blanket condemnations of the principle of enslavement of non-Muslims under* all* conditions.
No, like Suad Salih, he laid out certain conditions in which it is not permissible. He did not contradict Islamic texts and their traditional interpretations which state that there are conditions under which it is permissible.
It is Belief.
it has been stated several times here that improved police action and screening is wise and is needed.
Perhaps you would like to have agitation for camps for the refugees? And then screening, the muslim ones can wear green crescents for better visual identifications. It would be so t
HB has many wild beliefs, so yes.
If the westerners were now intervening directly and starting wars of aggresions in these regions and supporting dictatorships, perhaps - and if it was a matter of geographic closeness as well.
Of course Coulibaly was sub-saharan.
[quote=“Fuzzy_wuzzy, post:435, topic:742538”]
I do think we can look at France as an example of attempted Muslim integration into a Western European country.
[quote]
Certainly as the country which by laws in the labor and other sectors, and a badly functioning elitist education system - if the Germans were so crazy and stupid as to copy these. It is the country of course that in the various investigations of labor market for over twenty years has found continued, high levels of systematic discrimination in employment against people with “immigrant names” but has taken no action at all than to piously assert for itself an “attachement” to equality.
Of course if one pretends the problems seen in the muslim community are just there, but the data for the immigrants from other backgrounds but from the same economic profile countries shows problems essentially the same.
but it is easier to yell Muslim than to look at the socio-economic data and the structural economic and policy issues of the France.
It is wodnerful how the europeans claim to have learned lessons from the last world war, but show in fact only limited care, while they replicate the virtually all the same discourses as they had about the low income eastern jewish refugees…
Or how many demonsrations of xenophobic anti muslim White men may occur before they do on a violent rampage against Leftist and immigrants? Obviously this demonstrates the white men of the european origin are extremely dangerous and have a culture of violence. it is logical.
(Broomstick maybe she can from her american context provide you with the many stories of large scale sexual assualt…)
In addition to prosecuting the crimes that occurred, Germany should take a serious look at how integration of newcomers is handled.
I’m not entirely sure how the refugees are being handled, but their arrival should also involve German language classes as well as some sort of course on cultural and legal differences between where the refugees came from and where they are now. While that will not prevent the truly bad apples from misbehaving it will cut down on those who get into trouble simply through ignorance.
One problem with that is the sheer number of people arriving, which complicates delivery of such support services.
Another thing that should be offered is counseling - a lot of these people arriving have suffered trauma to one degree or another, quite a few are likely to be suffering some degree of PTSD. Counseling won’t be accepted by everyone, and it doesn’t work for everyone, but dealing with past trauma may make it easier for newcomers to adapt to their new country. There’s no question the Germans would take care of physical ills and wounds, why should mental health be neglected?
I think there should also be an exit option - if refugees decide they don’t like Germany after all it would be ideal for there to be some sort of assistance for them to go elsewhere. I’m not sure where that “elsewhere” would be, but it might act as a safety valve for those who find they don’t care for Europe after all. Best for everyone if they go elsewhere, and even better if they do so voluntarily.
It certainly would put a person in physical danger of a beating, no question about that. Though its worth pointing out a couple of things. Such a t-shirt would probably be seen as more of a cultural/ethnic slur than a religous one. Also, that more than a hundred years after the Irish influx to Glasgow there are still such problems, yet such problems with Muslim refugees are to disappear within a generation or two.
Except Muslim integration into Britain has shown many similar problems to France. France is not quite a one-off. Sure, different policies may help, but a lot of these policies seem to be unchangeable. For instance unemployment; a State cannot just wave a magic wand and find a cure for unemployment. Some societal and economic problems are extremely hard to fix. I have little faith in the ability of Western Govt’s to find a cure for such problems.
Prosecute the perpetrators. They committed a serious crime and need to be put through the justice system. Break up the pickpocketing ring and throw the book at them. Word will spread.
Take a look at what wasn’t working in terms of crowd control. While it’s not usually sexually violent, mob violence is not uncommon. Just over Christmas, 2000 US teenagers rampaged across a Kentucky mall. Concerts (remember the mosh pit rapes of Woodstock 99?), sporting events, festivals, protests and other large public gatherings have a track record of turning unexpectedly ugly quickly. I assume there are policing techniques for preventing this. Germany may need to reassess what kinds of crowds to expect at certain public events right now and organize accordingly.
More services for refugees would help, but organizations are no doubt stretched thin. Creative outreach using social media and community leaders may help.
I don’t really think changing immigration policy is a proportional solution. It might work, but it causes a lot of damage to solve a problem better fixed through other means.
Haven’t read through the thread, and most likely someone has linked to this already (sorry if so), but here is CNN’s take on it:
According to CNN anyway, this has been an ongoing problem in Germany that stems from before mass immigration from the ME was happening, and that it’s now a problem only because this has put focus on the issue that wasn’t there before. No idea if they are right or wrong, I’ve never been to Germany on NYE before nor in my trips did I notice this supposed systemic abuse of women, but that’s the view of the author of the article anyway.
Many of you will not agree on the number of genuine refugee’s that we are taking from Syria, but I think by selection from the refugee camps near the Syrian boarder is the best way it gives us chance to check papers and make sure that they are genuine refugee’s. Personally I would prioritise children & parent (sadly not all children have two parents) medical emergencies. Bottom of my list would be fit single males between 18-45 my feelings are they should stay and help sort out their country
(bolding mine)
Answer: The article is complete bullshit.
Agreed a state cannot wave a magic wand and cure unemployment, it can control the entry of immigrants to the number of vacancies that are available. The U.K. failed to do this last year so we now have unemployed immigrants with little or no hope of finding employment. All countries should have a controlled immigration policy linked to job vacancies with genuine refugee’s given priority.
My opinion is that in the past Governments got it wrong and have been operating a cover up on serious problems that would reflect badly on policies of operating an open door on immigration. Any group protesting against the open door policy was condemned as right wing racist’s by the left wing media when racism did not come into the equation, yes there are groups in the U.K. such as the BNP and the NF and I am sure Europe has its equivalent. The U.K. had a socialist government at the time and decided to link all protest against uncontrolled immigration to the BNP which was not true and the majority of the protesters had a dislike of the BNP. What is happening now is the truth is starting to come out not just in the U.K. but across northern Europe, up until now there have only been unconfirmed reports of sexual assaults committed by some immigrants, now some of these reports are being proven true even though originally governments denied them.
A great deal of what is happening today is not down to religion but to governments who close their eye’s to cultural practices that are illegal in most countries within Europe rather than say no you cannot do that it is illegal and unacceptable they hushed it up and allowed the problem to grow.
As I have said it is an opinion I am sorry it is a bit of a ramble but I tend to type on line
I’m pretty sure rape is illegal in every country even in Muslim countries. In fact it is punishable by death in all the ones I know of.
As an aside, one of the reasons rape no longer carries the death penalty was because juries would not convict if they knew the accused would be executed.
How are you so sure none of them were born there?