OK, what would you do about illegal immigration?

In My Humble Opinion
1

In this thread, aceplace57 asks what changed in our immigration policy. An interesting thread and even more interesting how blame is shifted to our latest election, while the problem has been growing for the past two or three decades.

This thread is not for discussing this, however. If you want to discuss how or why our immigration policy is ineffective (or perceived to be ineffective), go to that thread. What I am interested in is ways to fix the problem.

Now, let me define the problem (as it affected–or is that impacted?–the recent election) is that about 3% of the US population are undocumented residents. The belief is that these residents use a larger percentage of social services than the average citizen. The perception is that nothing is being done to keep this number from growing. It is also believed that these undocumented residents accept jobs for lower wages, resulting in, among other things, PhD’s working for minimum wage (if posts on the SDMB are to be believed).

So, what would you do to correct the problem?
-Define it solved. Say that there really isn’t anything to fix. This ignores the problem and is what, in part, has contributed to Trump.
-Open our borders so that there is no longer any illegal immigration. Do away with passports, visas, and just let anyone in.
-As President, issue an executive order instructing all law local, state, and federal enforcement agencies to enforce federal immigration laws. Send in federal troops to those communities that refuse (there is precedent for this, Little Rock Central High School-1957, University of Mississippi-1962, among others).

In the 1980s, Bush, Sr., tried issuing amnesty to all undocumented immigrants who wished and granted them legal residency. This was part of a plan that included increased enforcement of immigration law and required additional documentation for all employers that their employees had a legal right to work in this country. The result? Fraudulent documents and a bureaucracy that essentially makes it impossible to police the system (that would be discriminatory). When the law was enacted, I had a bit of trouble locating my birth certificate (it wasn’t a top priority for me). My employer flat out told me that the illegals working for him had submitted the required documents quicker than I had. I guess what I am saying is that if your solution includes amnesty, I wonder why you think it would work better now than it did 30 years ago.

Let me close by saying that I am not in favor of any of the solutions mentioned above, hence the reason of my post. I do think something needs to be done, one way or the other, or things are just going to get worse. We have more and more people going after fewer and fewer jobs. Artificially imposing a higher minimum wage is just a band-aid solution as it does not get to the problem. The belief is that wages are not low because we don’t have enough laws, wages are low because we have too many people competing for them and we are not enforcing the laws we have to prevent it. Personally, I believe the problem is much more complicated than that, but I find that sentiment prevalent, at least in much of the country.

2

Let everyone in. Society will adjust. You don’t deserve special status just because you were born outside the US borders. Everyone deserves the protection of the US Constitution. Where you were born is an accident.

Might we become a third world country when we’re overwhelmed by the Indians and Chinese? Maybe, but justice is justice and we’ll just have to deal with it.

3

“Comprehensive Reform.” A mixture of border enforcement, deportation, prosecuting employers…and a pathway to citizenship, and letting more people in legally.

It’s a compromise: both sides have to take some things they don’t want, in order to get some things they do want.

4

I’ll go with this and an emphasis on making the legal process more sensible and/or easier.

5

I was going to start a thread on this. The position of many on the left is that illegal immigrants should be allowed to stay unless there is a compelling reason for them to leave - that the default position should be in favor of residency. The position of many on the right is that illegal immigrants should be deported unless there is compelling reason for them to be allowed to stay.

I think the illegal immigrants in the US should be evaluated on a case-by-case basis. Perhaps half of them - depending on merits and behavior and whatnot - should be allowed to stay, but the other half might be deported.

And the border should be secured, and the wall built, but also refuge offered to those who need it.

6

Go back to the system pre-1920s. Allow people in as long as they’re not criminals or sick or a drain on the system. (They should also have a sponsor or relative residing here). It worked just fine until the Ku Klux Klan decided it was a problem because the “wrong people” – non-WASP were getting in.

The immigration to the US in the 19th century was one reason we became a great nation. I’m descended from some of those immigrants, and I bet many others here are, too.

But every argument for immigration restrictions today was made by the Klan a century ago. It’s been made against every nationality except English and (perhaps) German. It’s bigotry, pure and simple.

7

Basically this. Deportation only would apply to people who wouldn’t qualify to be here legally. No point in going through the trouble and expense of sending them back.

8

Punish the employers who knowingly hire workers who do not have the legal right to work here. This was supposed to happen under the 1986 immigration reform law, but that part of the law never got enforced. And there are many employers who knowingly hire illegal labor, they just don’t care, and they know they won’t get punished for it. It’s a business decision for them - cheap, exploitable labor versus the slight possibility of minor punishment.

But that will never happen, because the Republicans don’t want it to happen. Can’t get in the way of business, you know.

9

As to our undocumented neighbors of today, hug them.

Concerning the future the solution is obvious. Do the neighbors to the North have a wall or need a wall? No. Because they are happy there.

If our neighbors to the South were happy, would they come here? No. They don’t want to leave their families. In Latin America, the family is paramount.

Take the budget spent on keeping them out, and use it in ways that would benefit the Southern neighbors. After all, they are our neighbors.

But then, a bunch of border patrol folks would be out of work. Of course, they could plant flowers.

10

I would propose that anyone who wants to live in America be free to arrive at our border, state their intention, and be issued a provisional pass, enabling them to seek productive work. As long as they have a legal means to earn enough income to live on, and do not commit any crimes, and report their whereabouts periodically, they can stay. After a certain probationary period, they can bring family members as dependents, and become eligible for certain social services… After a specified time, their provisional pass becomes a green card.

Anyone wishing to immigrate under these circumstances must volunteer to have a temporary chip implanted, so their whereabouts can be monitored until they reach green-card status, after which it will be removed. As long as the techology exists, why not use it?

I believe that if we had had such a policy , the number of illegal aliens would be too small to have any social or economic impact, any more so than any other small group of outliers.

11

Several years ago, Spain detected a very stupid wave of illegal immigration: people who could come in legally but, because their reference was the US (whose image in Latin America is that you can’t go in legally unless you marry a citizen or your job moves you), were coming in illegally. That got solved by a publicity campaign explaining that they could come in legally and how to start the process. There have been similar campaigns at other times to explain for example that the embassies have job listings and know which work agencies are legit, etc.
I think that having better information out there might already be beneficial.

Also, better in-government processes. One of the periods in which I was incompletely documented was for three months during which I could not get my new SS card (without the “student” stamp) because that’s how long a different member of the alphabet soup was taking to determine I wasn’t in any terrorist list. Note that this was after getting an H-1 visa, which only took two days: why did the check not begin until I was in-country, and why can’t non-citizens apply for SS-card renewal outside the country? The government shouldn’t be the one causing people to be in wobbly situations.

Calling Inmigration (whatever they happen to be called at the time) because your employer wants you to go illegal and you’d like to know if a letter from your direct manager rather than one from the legal department will serve as proof of employment to renew your work visa shouldn’t get the caller called “a fucking stupid Hispanic whore” or other slurs. In fact, it might be a good idea to actually answer the question.

I think the TLDR boils down to: instead of turning staying legal into an obstacle course, try to facilitate it.

12

At the very beginning there were people against letting “the Huns” in, Ben Franklin among them (he later changed his mind), because “they will contaminate our English ways!”. It seems to be one of those things that people have instinctively but different people have a different instinct: some people see something or someone new and go “oh, shiny!”, some go “danger, danger!”

13

If we freely allow everyone in who wants to come in, we may not be able to afford that.
ANNOUNCE THIS PLAN WIDELY AND REPEATEDLY

  1. Secure the borders now. Enforce the borders and the immigration laws, now. Control the borders, block out anyone trying to enter illegally. Not necessarily a wall, although in some places a wall makes sense (e.g., have you seen the wall separating Tijuana and San Diego?). Turn away anyone trying to enter illegally. It will take some time to establish, achieve, and enforce this policy, but get there quickly.

  2. Amnesty for all who are here illegally. Determine a way to document all illegals, by a deadline date. We, as a country and as employers, have been complicit in this situation for many decades. We have contributed to the problem. Accept it, and don’t punish those who’ve already entered illegally because we have to some extent aided and abetted them.

  3. After the documentation deadline, penalize employers of any workers still undocumented. Deport any people who are undocumented.

  4. Establish immigration quotas. Those quotas must take into account if we can afford the services to support the numbers. If we can’t afford it, then little to no immigrants are allowed. If we can afford it, then many or all immigrants will be allowed.
    P.S. - I am an immigrant. Reality Chuck, I grew up near you in Latham NY and I swore my citizenship oath in Albany.

14

Make legal immigration easier and more enticing.

I think most illegal immigrants are essentially refugees, trying to escape a bad life and looking for a better one. Preventing that seems unfair.

I am an immigrant into Australia from New Zealand. The two countries have a special agreement for ease of swapping between each other, though apparently that’s starting to waver a bit as xenophobia increases.

15

I’m generally in favor of letting people come here who want to come here, provided they are not criminals, not carrying a communicable disease, and understand that they must support themselves while here. Problem is, few really support that. So how do we reduce illegal immigration?

  1. E-verify
  2. All citizens shall be informed when their SS# is being used to obtain work, and onsite investigation when the citizen reports that no, they did not get a job at a Target 2000 miles from their home. Identity theft prosecution and deportation after jail term will be considered a priority.
  3. Employers who fail to do required diligence or intentionally hire those ineligible to work will be fined $100,000 per employee.
  4. Employers who illegally hire labor at illegally cheap wages will pay the fine and also pay their workers their stolen wages. which they can happily spend in their home country. In addition, owners or managers who made the decision to act illegally will be prosecuted.
  5. While states will never be required to aid the federal government in the enforcement of immigration laws, the federal government will gladly accept whatever help is offered.
  6. States that release criminal illegal immigrants back into the population will have to pay victims’ families for their losses. Such funds will come out of federal grants to states. I don’t favor cutting off funding to sanctuary cities, but they will pay for any damage their policies do. And the payments to victims’ families will be very generous, on the level of what 9/11 families got.
16

Just WHAT is the “problem” which requires immediate and intense rectification?

Believe it or not, the undocumented do not sit around the pool all day and sip martinis at the public expense.

They come because they can make lots of money doing work white American won’t touch.

Visit Salinas CA - see the fields about dawn when the old school buses the job bosses use to deliver the workers to the field.
Now, chase away all those murderers and rapists and YOU pick the crops.

17

There is already legal means to hire farmworkers. Employers just don’t want to pay minimum wage. Now if you don’t think this is a problem needing rectification, why not just scrap the minimum wage?

18

Illegal aliens are rational economic actors who repond to incentives. To deal with illegal immigrants, change their incentives.

1)Levy high fines on employers that hire illegals, and prosecute owners for repeat offensives. Owners will be less likely to hire illegals, thereby removing an incentive to move or remain in the US.

  1. Militarize the border with the goal being to make crossing so expensive and risky many won’t think it’s worth it.

  2. Legalize drugs, thereby depriving the drug cartels of a market. Smuggling will cease making economic sense. It will also be a boon for Mexico to have drug cartels which constitute a serious threat to government sovereignty.

  3. Cut off all federal funds to sanctuary cities.

  4. End birthright citizenship.

  5. The above five steps will dramatically change the illegal migration, making mass deportation unnecessary. Those that remain receive no benefits, and if they’re arrested for committing a crime, they are sent back to their nation of origin once the legal system is done with them.

19

Nm

20

The idea that leaving undocumented immigrants alone led to Trump is dumb. Illegal immigration has gone down, but people were still upset about it. Immigrants are just an excuse to blame the outsiders for our own problems.

So, the actual solution is to go about fixing those problems. Get rid of a need for a scapegoat.

Now, in my pie in the sky version, one of those problems to be fixed would be bigotry, and I’d allow it to be criminalized. I think a whole lot of the reason for Trump is that we didn’t treat the KKK like Germany treated the Nazis. There needs to be a huge “never again” sentiment with the most blatant types of racism.

Yes, that limits freedom of speech. But I think it’s a limit we need. I’m not sure exactly where to draw the line, but joining an explicit racist organization like the KKK is a start. Printing provably false racist stories could work, too. Treat it like libel in that way, just against a whole race instead of individuals.

Our country is nowhere near at the point where we can’t support undocumented immigrants. If they’re okay with their secondary status, let them stay.