OK, ZPG: Let's get a room. I'm paying.

That sounds like an interesting Great Debate thread, and a topic I would not touch with a ten foot pole as long as I’m in the Pit.

You’re apparently trying to make the wrong distinction.

The distinction is between “Sexual segregation, sexual purity, and the importance of the family” and “handshakes are like rape”. She’s implying that “zero physical contact with opposite gender” (her view) is a part of “sexual segregation …” (the Roma culture) but is not explicitly claiming that Romas agree with her about handshakes specifically. (Ditto for “the importance of family” and her views on adoption.)

I think you’re misremembering slightly. The poster I believe was Kal and I think his implication was more that someone like ZPG Zealot lies more on the extremist fringe of modern Roma culture, rather than not representing it at all.

ETA: And adding another voice to validate her beliefs wouldn’t necessarily mean much to many. Folks could always cry “sock-puppet!” or some such. Sexual and ritual purity is common enough in many faiths and cultures and well documented among the Roma. I’m content believing she is just a particularly vehement proponent on the least permissive edge of whatever continuum exists.

You’re probably right, but I sure don’t recall his response being that tepid. I’m sure that I am misremembering, though.

I certainly think that she has some real-life experience with Roma culture. Any suggestion that she’s making her persona up completely from scratch is giving her way too much credit, I think. That would mean researching a culture that she doesn’t belong to, and going to the trouble of constructing an entirely made-up character. That takes creativity, intelligence and intellectual curiosity. She doesn’t strike me as smart enough for that.

I don’t even mean any of that as an insult. I mean, just think about it realistically. I suspect that most flaky online personas are based on reality to some extent. It’s just easier that way.

I doubt that she belongs to any kind of extreme fringe, though. I may be wrong about that. But I’m guessing that it’s more likely that her parents, grandparents and other family members were more traditional Roma, and some of the crazy stuff is in part based on her experience with them, only turned into a horror movie caricature.

In case anyone is wondering, Wiki link. And, BTW:

Well, cocoa puffs, newsflash: You’re not exactly Swift, are you? No matter what you may think of your literary talents.

And yet you fail to understand that by killing an infant, you yourself would be “compromising someone’s right to operate their body”. Unless it’s self-defense (or defense of someone else), killing kind of violates that whole “swinging your fist” thing.

I take it you’re not really familiar with Drunky’s posting style? :wink:

What her argument boils down to is that killing an adult human is less bad than being forced to become a parent. Between murdering an adult human and giving birth to a kid one of the parents doesn’t want, murder is the lesser moral evil.

While we’re on the subject, the definition of parent is “a caregiver of the offspring in their own species. In humans, a parent is the caretaker of a child (where “child” refers to offspring, not necessarily age).” So to call people who adopt children ‘‘adopters’’ and not ‘‘parents’’ makes no goddamn sense.

To quote one of my favorite court decisions, “These are not the arguments of serious people.”

No, see, a woman has the right to choose, as long as she chooses abortion. She does NOT have the right to choose parenthood, if that choice impacts someone else’s financial prospects. Money is higher than choice, in that instance. Everyone has the right to have sex with a willing partner, if they have one, but everyone has the right to dip out on financial consequences if they should occur. If that means killing a woman and/or her infant in the process, well, that’s self defense. Because defense of money ranks higher than life - that’s what is being defended here . The father, when faced with a woman he knocked up and a potential child support burden - well, obviously killing is self defense.

ETA I do wonder if she would react this way if it were her niece’s neck on the chopping block. Say she gets knocked up and wants to keep it, and the boyfriend feels the defensive need to end the pregnancy.

Yeah, oops. Hypothetical me didn’t mention in the scenario earlier that it was Trolly’s niece that he had knocked up. Or, actually, it was probably for the best. Otherwise, lawyers might have been contacted, someone’s cell phone might have been confiscated, and Trolly would have had to see those dick picks that hypothetical me had sent to the niece. Then all hell would *really *have broken loose.

Hey! Trollface! You *did *think this through, right? You do realize that when you make up an idiotic argument and go trolling on the internet, you actually have to make up a complete argument, and follow it through to the end? You’re not sitting there right now, drooling like a moron, and going “doooh… I didn’t think of that”?

Because that would just be sad.

Intimately, actually :slight_smile:

Why are you so emotionally invested in her point of view?

Try this:

Sometimes self-defense requires the killing of another person. A robber is chocking you to death in order to get your husband to withdraw money from an ATM, you shoot him to get him to stop, is that murder? I say it isn’t. A private individual forcing another person to hand over part of their salary for 18 years without a compelling legal reason is committing a crime.

In a capitalistic society money is always going to rank higher than life. If any of my nieces got pregnant unmarried they would have an abortion or they would cease to be one of my nieces. The results within in the community would be similar to Amish shunning or when some Orthodox Jews sit shiva for a child who has married a gentile. I would not care what happens to them.

That’s only a definition those who have been brainwashed by pro-adoption propaganda accept. For those of us how don’t accept adoption propaganda, parent is the woman or man whose egg and sperm combined to produce a child. It’s unfortunate that the development of in-vitro-fertilization and gestational surrogacy technology have opened up a nasty Pandora’s box for the human race.

eats popcorn

How do you feel about pets or houseplants?

Look, Trollface, do you know what bothers me the most about you? You really seem to be terminally stupid. As in, can’t find your own ass with both hands, a map and a sniffer dog to help you level stupid. So how about I spell this out for you:

Do you know why people are still trying to debate with you? Well, in part it’s because sometimes you lead a horse to water, and it just stands there and looks at you funny. I don’t know what’s up with that. But mostly, it’s because they actually want to talk about some of the issues you raise. There may be some genuinely debate-worthy questions somewhere inside all that batshittery. So they hold out hope way, way beyond the point where they should give up that you may be babbling in good faith. And then, instead of interesting conversations that broaden everyone’s perspective, we end up with crazy-ass spelunking into the depths of Hell, and everyone has a new set of nightmares to accompany them for the rest of their lives.

I understand that you think that what you’re doing is satire. That, again, is because you’re terminally stupid. The rest of the world calls it trolling. Would you consider dropping the shtick? There is a place for you on the board without it, and you might even make a few more friends. As in, more than current count of zero. Many interesting GD threads might ensue. Some of them will probably still end up on the morbid and horrifying side, but at least it would be genuine, honest morbidity and horror.

So how about it? How about you PM the mods about a name change from Zealot to Honest Debater, and join the ranks of the regular Dopers?

And yes, I know it will never happen. Everyone can stop laughing hysterically at that thought now, and go back to laughing at the trollery. Anyone want popcorn? I’ll pass some around.

You started this, then regretted it, and now you will sit back and eat popcorn? How about just asking for the thread to be closed?