Sorry. Ishould have been more clear. Of course the safety of the guests comes first. If there is a medical reason they must have their shoes on, then the host must suck it up and make an exception, or else be a bad host (a damning label, that.)
For me, I honestly can’t think of a time when I wouldn’t rather leave than be a (likely grudging) exception. Putting people out is no fun.
Shrug So stay at home. We can have fun without you. If you should decide to come out, rest assured that I seriously don’t care about the state of your footwear.
You commented that this thread was “oddly contentious” and then you say something like this.
Of course you can have fun without me. Jesus.
I don’t think Jesus would ever judge someone in that way. Wearing sandals his his nod to both sides of the issue.
I think you’re misinterpreting “disappointed, but ultimately neutral” as “contentious.”
Let me put it in terms of a hypothetical: I’m having a party. I am blissfully unaware of some people’s preferences about indoor footwear. People start showing up. Some take their shoes off at the door. It’s a nice Spring day. No mud in sight. I sort of raise my eyebrows, and ask what’s up. They tell me it’s a cultural thing. I think, “Huh. Never heard that one.” I say, “OK, have a beer!” Then somebody tells me that (hypothetically) Acid Lamp isn’t coming because she strongly believes in “shoes off indoors,” and she knows that we don’t necessarily do that here. I’m going to think, “Well that sucks. I wonder why she didn’t ask me first, or at least talk to me about it. She should know I don’t give a shit about the state of her footwear. Ah well, that’s her problem then.” I would then proceed to make sure that everybody’s drink was full, and everyone was having a good time.
Okay, but someone who doesn’t give a shit about the state of my footwear doesn’t ask me to remove my shoes. My comments were only for if someone were to ask.
At that point, I wouldn’t be comfortable asking for an exception, since I would think that they had a strong desire in the first place or they wouldn’t be asking. Once the request is made, I would be most comfortable leaving. That way, I don’t have to walk around barefoot and in pain, and my host doesn’t have to have someone in shoes–a state that they made clear is not their preference.
Well, I’ve said my shoe piece already, but I just wanted to mention, as a slipper-offerer, I do wash them ya know. With soap and hot water and everything. If I offer you slippers when you come in they’re clean and foot fungus free, just as an FYI.
You do? See, I was taught that when you are in someone else’s house, you certainly do NOT do what they do. They grab a Coke from the fridge, you wait until you are asked if you would like one. They run up to their masterbath and root through their medicine cabinet for a pain reliever, you say “I have a headache, do you have Tylenol or something?” They answer the phone - you let it ring. They answer their door barefoot, that doesn’t mean its OK with them for YOU to be barefoot… Its their home, they are going to do things they do things that you, as a guest, won’t do.
Likewise, you have dinner there and they start cleaning up the dishes. Its rude to just get up and start running the hot water and scraping the plates. Simultaneously, its rude not to say “Can I help you with those? What would you like me to do?”
As said in my own home I’m a “don’t care” person. When casually visiting others I’m a “look for the shoe pile” person - if there is a spot for shoes, mine come off. My own front door doesn’t have a shoe spot (the door the family uses does) and shoes usually end up on my parlour carpet - I’d rather you just wore them in the house then leave them there - but there isn’t a spot. (At parties, because so many people leave their dirty shoes in piles with dirty snow melting on my carpet, we put a rug there. Taking them off does not absolve you from wiping them when you come into a house.) At a party, I dress for the party, and shoes are part of getting dressed.
Wow. I didn’t realise how much some people care about this issue!
Shoes off is automatic for me. Seems to be the norm here in Britain. I’ve never asked a guest to remove their shoes, they just do it. But if someone kept them on, I’d notice but not care enough to comment.
How is anything you’ve posted like simply taking your shoes off in the house if your host prefers it that way? I wouldn’t assume that my guests would automatically know to do it. I don’t see why anyone would. If you have preferences, make them clear at the outset. Similarly, if you’re a guest, and your host asks you to take your shoes off, just fuckin’ do it and skip all the melodrama. If you have some sort of valid extenuating circumstance, I’m sure your host won’t be a dick about it.
I was assuming that by saying “when you are in someone else’s house, you do what they do” meant you believed when you were in someone else’s house, you followed their lead. i.e. If they are not wearing shoes, you take your shoes off. And I think following your hosts lead makes for a presumptious guest. But obviously, you didn’t mean it that way.
For starters, Acid Lamp is male. But secondly, do you really think that all shoes off people are that touchy and stupid about having to wear shoes while visiting other people? In your situation, it would have been acceptable (but seemingly ONLY if it’s a cultural thing) to not wear shoes in your house when you’re having a party. If I know you well enough, I’ll be taking off my shoes in your house at the first chance that I get; then again, I have very few friends who would have frowned upon this in the first place.
Dangerosa, you’ve taken the “do what they do” to a point of hyperbole. Yes, it may not have been absolutely clear, but I do believe that Ogre was implying following social cues for behavior. A good host will offer you something to drink if you’re not so informal that it’s okay for you to get yourself a coke from the fridge, and an observant guest would more than likely be able to pick up on cues as to whether it’s okay to take off one’s shoes or sit in the formal living room. (Look at their feet and you’ll more than likely get an idea as to what’s done in the house. No, it’s not rude.) Heck, depending on the host-guest relationship, other forms of manners may be relaxed in favor of the social relationship being more intimate.
I’m all for picking up clues (like "is there a place for my shoes or are they going to end up on the light colored rug, …light rug…but there is this handy mat in front of the door to wipe my shoes on, and the rest of the house doesn’t have white carpet…hummmm). I just think picking up clues from what your host is doing is not the best place for clues - since hosts the role and place in the house are significantly different from the guests role and place in the house.
I don’t know. Maybe where I’ve been to has been too uniform of a showing, but generally I can look at the host’s feet and automatically know whether it’s okay to take my shoes off or whether they’d prefer I leave them on. Then again, maybe I’m a bit too observant to the situation for my host’s tastes. Is it rude to momentarily glance around my surroundings to figure out whether or not it’s okay to take my shoes off if the situation isn’t obvious from the invitation to their house?
Just out of curiosity, are there any Canadians here who have visited in the U.S. and ran into the “shoes on” thing, and any Americans here who have visited Canada and ran into the “shoes off” thing? (I know alice mentioned a B&B that she visited in the U.S. earlier.) Were you able to deal with it without your brain melting and leaking out of your ears?
How 'bout asking, if you have a doubt?
That’s kind of the rub.
While I’m on the “we let our guests take them off or on” side, I will admit that I think its odd when near strangers arrive in my house and kick off their shoes like they live there - even if my shoes are off. Its one thing when its good friends - good friends can be comfortable. Its another thing when someone who is an acquaintence does it.
To some extent it depends on what they are there for - if they are there to sell me something - leave your shoes on please! Coming over to game, sure, kick your shoes off if you want.
There you have it. I would never dream of turning down an invitation to someone’s home because they keep their shoes on in the house. Usually I just ask “Is this a shoes off house?” That pretty much tells me what I need to do. If I am staying a while, and my host takes them off, or I’m told “shoes off”, then off they go. I’ve no problem keeping them on in other people’s homes. I’m no shoe nazi, but I expect you to to show me the same courtesy I show you by conforming to the rules when I am in your home.
Shoes on. As I’ve stated in other threads (and I didn’t do the hijacking – it was others who wanted to pick a fight with me over my preferences) I was raised by a father who considers the wearing of shoes and other clothing as a sign of civilization. The way I was raised, one asks permission to take one’s shoes off as a way of “getting comfortable”. One gets comfortable only when one is familiar enough (family, good friends) to be so informal. Stockings are pretty much underwear, only the tops of which should show.
That’s not to say that, under unusual circumstances, it wouldn’t be appropriate to take your shoes off at my house. If, for some reason I can’t fathom, my sidewalks and gravelled driveways all disappeared and you had to walk through mud to get from the parking area to my front door, and if my door mats and shoe brushes (those bristley things one rubs one’s feet on to take dirt off the shoes) had all disappeared, then I probably would want you to leave your mud-caked shoes at the front door while I tried to figure out who made off with the landscaping.
My wife’s family is a shoes-off clan, and that has caused some absurd situations. We recently attended a funeral for an elderly aunt and ended up at an in-law’s house afterward. There I was, in suit and tie, being asked to take off my dress shoes and leave them with dozens of other pairs of shoes. Now, the ground outside was dry, I had gotten out of my car in the clean, dry street, walked up the clean, dry driveway and the clean, dry steps and across the clean, dry porch to get to the house in my clean, dry dress shoes. And then I was asked to take off my shoes because the hostess’ precious carpets were more important to her than her guests’ comfort (mental, if not physical). It was absolutely absurd and we didn’t stay long.
What’s worse is that I really do NOT want people walking around my house in their smelly, unshod feet. But when the in-laws come to visit, do you think I can get them to leave their damn shoes on in my house? Oh, hell no! Frankly, I think it’s just plain rude for them to assume I want all of their empty shoes cluttering up the entry to my house. I don’t.