Okay, I admit it, McNabb has shown me something this year

[EllisDee]

This is an NFL discussion regarding my bashing of Eagles QB Donovan McNabb, and how he has proven me wrong this year. This summary is to help the mouse-over folks who don’t know who McNabb is.

I never did get a hobby, as Jimmy Chitwood advised me to do, so here’s the thread I promised.

First comes the quotes. From this thread:

@Ellis Dee in post #57

Next week will be interesting. I hope for Carolina, but it could go either way. I think it will come down to a question of McFlabb’s confidence; does he believe he can throw a pass to a WR, who is defended by a CB, or will he continue to be a gutless wonder and dump off every pass to a RB matched up against safeties and linebackers. Or even worse, have no confidence in his arm (head) at all and pull the ball down and run.

In particulr, the “gutless wonder” comment raised some ire. Also:

@Ellis Dee in post #69

In fact, the reason you see dumpoffs is usually because the QB isn’t confidant that he can get the ball to the WR without the DB picking it off. Donovan’s 6.7 yards per attempt (an abysmal showing) confirms that he is Johnny Dump-Off, having little confidance in a traditional, vertical passing game.

You get the idea. At this point I could hem and haw all I wanted about how it took so long for McNabb to learn the system, and he is inaccurate, but it’s time to be honest.

He was saddled with a dumpoff-heavy (West Coast) system and the worst wide receiving core imaginable. Despite that, the guy was a proven winner. And now this season, he is passing up a storm to all his WRs – not just TO, as I assumed it would be – and looking pretty damn impressive while doing it.

McNabb has game, and no matter what the issues were, (confidence? happy feet? bad receivers?) he has clearly outgrown them now, and likely has shed them for good. Still not the most accurate passer, but in light of his exploits this season, that’s about as relevant as saying his hair is braided too tight. The man’s got game. There. I said it.

Also, in this thread, I made the prediction:

@Ellis Dee in post #105

I think Owens will try as hard as he can to catch every single pass McNabb throws to him.

But I also think this year is the year McNabb gets exposed as the dumpoff king of the NFL. When the regular season ends, and Westbrook has more catches than Owens, I will no doubt link to past threads where I pointed out this tendency in McNabb. (Assuming the Reader accepts money orders, that is.)

But I eagerly await the weeks where TO blows up on the sidelines because he was legitimately open downfield and McNabb inexplicably chose to dump it off to a back. Should be sometime in mid-September.

(Oh and don’t bother with the Steelers March To The Superbowl thread…clearly this year the New York Football Giants will win it all. Go Big Blue!)

I didn’t think it possible to be so wrong about so many things in so few words. Yet I managed it. Even I laughed at the parody TO and McNabb did of their sideline “meltdown” during that MNF game, and I loved the Ray Lewis TD celebration. That was cool.

Good on you, Eagles, but I reserve judgement as to the Eagles ability to win a Conference Championship. We’ll just have to wait and see on that one.

Interestingly, I notice that last year I posted, again in this thread:

@Ellis Dee in post #69

A good passing game should have 320 completions per season. (20 per game.) Eagles weren’t so bad, with 278. (I thought it was much lower.)

The distribution of that 320 should be:

200 to all WRs (62.5%)
70 to all TEs (22%)
50 to all RBs (15.5%)

I was taken to task for this by furt and dantheman for pulling these numbers “out of my ass”. Well, I do understand the game of football to some extent, and those percentages represent my philosophy of how the game should be played.

I bring this up because I feel vindicated this season by the surge in TE production that I was, indeed, on the right track with my thinking, and the NFL has finally caught on to the same belief.

Just because it was in my ass, doesn’t make it wrong. Erm, did I just say that? (Actually, the RB figure is still too low; I have revised my thinking since then, but not by much. More a 60/20/20 split currently.)

Flame away, Eagles fans.

[duffer]

Don’t worry too much, Eagles fans don’t have too much ground to stand on without falling off the cliff during the postseason backpeddling. If Favre goes another 2-3 years as I suspect, we’ll go after someone like Brees and trade Green and possibly Barnett along with a shitload of draft picks. (Not those specifically, but players of that caliber). If Favre wants out, I can see a strong push for someone like McNabb. Very few QB’s are locks for the next season, and Philly may get pie-eyed for a title and make a mistake.

Think that’s wishful thinking? I’ll point you to the Falcons in 1992. 'Nuff said.

OK, maybe it is wishful thinking. But I’ve seen deals that would make a McNabb to GB trade make sense. Need a cite?

Ricky drafted by New Orleans, Walker traded to Minnesota, umm…well, you all get the picture.

Consider Green, Davenport and Fisher in the GB backfield and you can see where at least could be a factor in a trade deal. crosses fingers

[Madd_Maxx]

As a Redskins fan living in PA, I can only hope the Eagles win the Superbowl this year so they can suffer the “After Superbowl Salary Cap Purge.” This is where they dump all their free agents who are asking for a metric buttload of money (similiar to a standard buttload of money, but cheekier) now that they are the champs. Either that or Donovan McNabb pulls a Kobe and alienates all his teammates forcing the ownership to trade all the other good players away to placate their “star.” Please, is this really to much to ask?

[duffer]

@Madd Maxx

Either that or Donovan McNabb pulls a Kobe and alienates all his teammates forcing the ownership to trade all the other good players away to placate their “star.” Please, is this really to much to ask?

You can’t possibly think this is more likely than T.O. doing the same. Can you? CAN YOU? :dubious:

[ShibbOleth]

Ellis Dee, you got moxie, kid. I always admire a man* who can admit he was wrong**. Shows real class. I stopped saying anything at all negative after McNabb threw 3 TDs on a broken ankle. Regardless of ability that shows heart and a will to win.

*Women are never wrong; just ask my wife…
**I’ve never been in that situation, fortunately…

[AncientHumanoid]

T.O. may be exceptionally good. BUT! The corner stones of this year’s Eagles are the QB of the OP, the multipurpose RB/WR/passrushblocker Westbrook, and their D.

Dumping off to someone who piles up YAC is actually a sign of a GOOD QB, don’t you know. The team wins that way. Give the ball to the person who benefits the team the most for that play. If the long ball is covered, a dump is very likely to gain 1st downs and yardage.

Not an NFC fan, btw, but I have watched all this very closely because of the fantasy league I joined. Makes you really watch for good performances over all and not showboating streakiness.

I still have hopes for my Broncos!

[Lamar_Mundane]

If only Rush Limbaugh showed such character…

[Madd_Maxx]

@duffer

You can’t possibly think this is more likely than T.O. doing the same. Can you? CAN YOU? :dubious:

T.O. is the more likely candidate for this, yes. But as a fan of another NFC East team, whose meltdown is more damaging to the team? The Eagles made the NFC championship game three years in a row without T.O. Take Donny McNabb away and I bet they don’t make it back even with T.O.

[EllisDee]

@Madd Maxx

T.O. is the more likely candidate for this, yes. But as a fan of another NFC East team, whose meltdown is more damaging to the team? The Eagles made the NFC championship game three years in a row without T.O. Take Donny McNabb away and I bet they don’t make it back even with T.O.

McNabb is clearly the heart and soul of the Eagles, but they would do fine without him, as they did two years ago down the stretch. Any number of QBs would probably plug in easily and have varying ranges of success.

Kurt Warner could get them the #8 seed wildcard spot. Drew Brees could win them the division. Quincy Carter could give them meaningful Week 17 games. Hell, even Koy Detmer would do okay. Their system and staff is simply too effective to be derailed by one or two guys. Duce Staley comes to mind.

@NoClueBoy

Dumping off to someone who piles up YAC is actually a sign of a GOOD QB, don’t you know. The team wins that way. Give the ball to the person who benefits the team the most for that play. If the long ball is covered, a dump is very likely to gain 1st downs and yardage.

That was only half my original (from last year’s threads) issue with McNabb. See, the long ball wasn’t covered, yet he continued to throw dumpoffs. I’ve seen him do that maybe twice all year, whereas last season he seemed to do that at least twice every game.

Regarding dumpoffs being a good thing for a QB to do, it’s the same debate as scrambling, on some level. It can be helpful, but the need to do it is a symptom of a larger problem that needs to be addressed.

My latest pet theory this season has been players getting tired. Watching the Falcons @ Giants game this year drove the point home. Vick rushed for tons of yards in the first quarter, and then basically shut down for the rest of the game. Why? Because he was sucking wind. Just like you don’t want to tire out your QB by rushing him, (which affects decision-making ability), you don’t want to tire out your RB by throwing passes to him.

Before you jump on me for this one, re-read how I labeled it a “pet theory”. I haven’t done any research to confirm or refute this supposition as of yet. But Tiki sure does seem to be more tired coming down the stretch…

[AncientHumanoid]

Coverage is a funny thing, though. Over the years, I’ve often seen a receiver who looks like he may he may be doing the tango with two DBs and yet stil be “open” enough to actually catch the ball.

By the same token, note how many times a wideout looks to have two or three steps on his coverage, and yet a slight adjustment at the last moment puts the defensive player right where he needs to be to break up the play.

For any of us, regardless of how football savvy we may be, to make the judgement call on who’s open or not seems just a little bit silly, imho.