I was doing my customary after-work-Straight-Dope-lurking when I came upon this thread in the Pit and Scylla’s rhetorical question made me decide to post. Anyhow, I am a bigot, and although I don’t know if I could be labled thought-provoking, I thought I’d give it a shot.
I grew up in a fairly homogenous mix of three races, and I really don’t have any prejudices towards them (and yes, I’m one of those three races) We’ll call them A, B, and C, just to keep it anonymous. However, once I entered college, I encountered Race D. I never had any thoughts one way or another towards Race D before this, so I had a somewhat open mind. Unfortunately, over the course of five years in school, I’ve had the snot beat out of me by members of Race D… Been ridiculed too many times to count by Race D… and most memorably, had one of my best friends raped by two Race D punks.
The rational part of my mind realizes that I can’t form judgements of people from a statistically meaningless set of experiences, but I can’t help it. It’s pretty much a reflex now, sort of like the sharp breath one takes when splashed with cold water. Every time I walk by a Race D person, I tense up and feel a flood of hatred come over me.
However…
I try my hardest to not let it control me. I make it a point to decide if I have a reason to hate a person other than skin color, and usually I don’t. Now that I’m thinking about it, I haven’t disliked anyone of Race D since college.
It’s not just race either. I have myriad other criteria to dislike someone on sight, but I reserve judgement until I’ve met that person.
So then, what are your thoughts? Am I a bad person? I’ll check back in after a while, for it is time for bed…
Nah. It’s when you start attributing all your personal failures to Race D (i.e. I was denied a loan becuase the bankers are controlled by Race D, or I couldn’t get a job because preference was given to Race D) that you slide into stupidity and paranoia.
You’re completely free to hate anyone you want for whataver reasons you choose; don’t let anyone tell you otherwise or try to make you feel bad with some touchy-feely “Smile on your brother” crap. I just ask that you don’t try to spread that hatred to other people (including your children, if any) with phony charges about conspiracies and such.
To me, this is what makes the statement in your title false. You’re not a bigot. You’re defined, not by your emotions, but by your actions. You can have all the raging, seething hatred of a hundred Nazi parties inside you, but as long as you treat people based on their individual merits, and not on your prejudices, I’d never have any reason to call you a bigot.
I think everybody has something about people that they’re prejudiced against, whether it’s skin color, or cultural differences, or actions that they find disagreeable. Overcoming these prejudices is just one of the hurdles we’re presented with on the journey to becoming good human beings.
A bigot is one who holds his or her own prejudices in the face of any evidence, with strong suggestions of intolerance and hypocrisy as subtext connotations. Lazlo has not demonstrated those characteristics, so it does not threaten anyone’s conclusions regarding bigotry.
Did Lazlo express the idea that group D deserved to be hated? No.
Did Lazlo express the idea that group D was beyond redemption and maintin that attitude in the face of contrary evidence? No. (Certainly not yet.)
Given that Lazlo has not demonstrated the characteristics associated with the word, I see no threat in his actions or beliefs to anyone’s concept of the word bigot.
Has Lazlo expressed negative feelings regarding group D? Yes. That, however, does not make him a bigot. It indicates an emotional state prompted by some experiences. If Lazlo returns to tell us of all the group D people he has prevented from getting jobs or has harrassed as either customers or staff in various stores and then goes on to defend his actions as “right” or “appropriate,” then he will be displaying the characteristics of a bigot. Until then, no one’s conclusions regarding what a bigot may be have been challenged in this thread.
I’ll jump on the “not a bigot” bandwagon. If you had a number of bad experiences with race D, it’s unfortunate but understandable that you’d develop the feelings you have. The fact that you actively try to not act on those feelings, and that you can even ask such rational questions of yourself, is very commendable.
I’m in a somewhat similar situation. I grew up in a town that was comprised almost entirely of a particular race. There was a huge gang problem, and most gangs were made of this race. I was beat up and harrassed by members of this race. Members of this race constantly killed people. Now I’m all grown up, and I still have residual feelings of distrust towards members of this race - but only taken in general. Individuals of this race, I never have any bad feelings towards. It’s just thoughts of the race taken as a whole. I never act on this, I treat them with nothing but respect, but… the negative feelings are still there. It’s frustrating, and disconcerting, but I make sure it doesn’t affect the way I treat people, so I don’t worry about it too much.
—Lazlo has not demonstrated those characteristics, so it does not threaten anyone’s conclusions regarding bigotry.—
Which is inconsistent with what I said… how? Maybe I wasn’t entirely clear, but at least work out your logic there before jumping on me.
Me: “If B were not defined by X,Y,Z, then T. (Implicitly: B IS being defined by X,Y,Z here, and no X,Y,Z are described): Therefore not B (and not T).”
You: “B is defined by X,Y,Z, so not B and not T!”
Me: “Uh, duh: and, hardly the point.”
Though something just occured to me: Lazlo’s subjective experience and emotions speak to one truth: his reason and moral convictions lead him to another. That’s not an entirely unprecedented situation, and it raises some interesting questions for me I’m going to have to consider further.
Mangetout, both are true, I just didn’t fully explain myself. I meant that since college, once I got to know somone from race D, I haven’t disliked them.
ElJeffe, that pretty much describes how I feel.
I’m somewhat surprised and relieved at the responses so far. When I’ve discussed this with friends and acquaintances, I’ve gotten, “You’re an evil bigot!” types of responses.
Maybe I need new friends.
Still though, the contradiction that Apos points out is quite frustrating. Unfortunately I sometimes let my emotions win out. A recent example happened with a fellow from work. This wasn’t racial bias, but rather one based on the appearance of his hair. This guy has long black hair with a bleached stripe down the middle so that he looks like a skunk. For some reason this drove me nuts.
me: Have you seen that guy with the stupid skunky hair? I don’t know him but I hate him.
my friend: What??? Let me introduce you to him.
Of course, it turns out that skunk-hair guy is one of the nicest people I’ve ever met and I rather enjoy hanging out with him.
The hair I once despised is now a pretty cool expression of his personality.
Occurances like this help to keep my stupid emotions in check.
If you think you are a bigot, then you probably are one. I feel as if the being filled with hatred when someone from the race passes as a dead give away.
Too bad Balder was killed.
It would have been nice to ask a real bigot some questions.
Obviously there is a big grey area in this racial business and sometimes I would just like to be able to have an open discussion about it .
People are so uptight about this phenomenon. They will gladly bash each others heads in over a bible verse and that’s perfectly acceptable. But we can’t touch the race issue with a lo-o-o-o-o-o-ng stick.
Anyone just opening his mouth on this is immediatly branded with a swastika on the forehead.
Wouldn’t it be better to discuss it, instead of reinforcing White supremacists’ idea that there really is a conspiracy against them?
I agree 100% – I’m a non-White Nationalist (their preferred term for their movement), and a regular poster on the Stormfront boards. I followed them here to observe, once people started posting they were trying to debate people on here. Part of the reason I stick around Stormfront is because it’s one of the few places online where racial issues can be openly discussed. Sure, you have to wade through many a racial slur, a myriad of conspiracies, etc., but at least the issue is discussed. 99% of places, if you even MENTION race, people will say, “Why are you bringing that up? Are you racist? You MUST be racist!” Uh, no, maybe I just feel it’s an issue worth discussing…
Anyway, I wanted to find out why they believe what they believe from themselves, rather than just hearing from the media that they “hate.” I’ve found it’s not as simple as that. I certainly don’t agree with much of their philosophy, but the more intelligent posters do bring up some valid points. Not all of them are supremacists. Not all of them are hateful. Anyway, if any of you are interested in discussing these issues with them, you can go there and try starting some discussions. We could always use more “antis” (what they call us non-White Nationalists) over there!
There are a million of places you can find on the net where people discuss race out in the open. Resorting to Stormfront for race discussion is like resorting to a cesspool for Sunday brunch. Maybe you can find something edible in the mix, but you’ll have to wade through a bunch of turds first. If you don’t want to eat turds, that’s not an efficient way to spend energy.
I discuss race issues all the time on the net. You won’t find much discussion on “mainstream” boards, but there’s plenty of other forums–dominated about non-whites usually–where people talk about a variety of race-related issues. Even though the SDMB has it’s share of close-minded individuals, I’ve participated and lurked through many good threads focused on race.
In regards to the OP, I don’t belong to the camp that says, “you can’t help how you feel”. Yes, you can help how you feel, especially since you recognize your feelings are irrational. If you want to change, perhaps you could try to desensitize yourself–much like people trying to combat any other psychological issue.
Are you a bigot? I don’t see why not. You have a strong prejudice against people based on their race…if this isn’t the definition of bigotry, I don’t know what is. But unless you act on it (like discriminating against people or bad-mouthing them to their face), I don’t see it has harmful to anyone but yourself.