Okay married people... Explain.

In My Humble Opinion
41

I agree with Hamadryad. My dad is on his third now, and all the lout does is complain about her. Idiot.

Me and Mrs. Heap had been together for many years. We also broke up for a full year in there, got back together, and then split when I left for the Army. Later, once we say eachother again, we realized how much we really loved eachother and decided to try to make it work again.

In the Army, it’s kinda hard to be with someone who lives “back home” when you are someplace far away, but I felt I really needed to be with her. So I asked her to marry me so she could go with me wherever I was.

That kind of commitment is easy to understand, and that’s the difference - to me - between marraige and just being together. If you are just together, something like moving because of a job is a major point of contention, and you reaaalllllly have to work to show your commitment to make it work, while a married couple would immediately think of how to best go about it.

Now, there are different problems too, depending on the people. My wife was deleriously happy about the marraige, while I think of it as the way I could best show her I wanted her with me.

She is very much a family person, with a great need to go back home fairly often to see friends, family and just the area. I kinda miss some of my friends, but I can see the same stuff in a thousand other cities and have prectically zero to do with my family even when I’m there. Just don’t care for’em all that much.

The differences in our thinking makes our decision-making in our marraige different than it might be for someone else.

I’m rambling.

42

Quoting you:

That’s a comparison to rape. It’s a mild one, based on a criticism (and, as evidenced by your comment here, a rather strange misunderstanding) of what Airman Doors said, but there it is. With all due respect, if you’re trying to say that this is merely a question and no rebuttal was meant, I don’t think I believe that.

You may think your comments were all “Asking for clarification,” but “Asking for clarification” can be critical when it’s phrased like this:

The first two comments are just out of your FIRST reply. Sorry, but if you want to understand, you have to stop talking. You can’t understand other people’s opinions if you’re still yammering, especially if one of the first things you say is “That is incredibly untrue.” How can that possibly be interpreted as anything other that a direct, critical rebuttal?

You: “I want to know what people’s opinions are on X”
Person: “I think A, B, C.”
You: “That is incredibly untrue.”

I don’t know if you’re conscious of just how negative and critical you seem to be of other people’s opinions in this thread, but you may want to sit back and try, with genuine and honest objectivity, to reflect on how you would feel if you offered your opinion and were met with rebuttals like the ones you’ve posted. Would you think they were merely requests for clarification, or would they seem critical to you? I’m not even talking about just “That is incredibly untrue,” but pay particular attention to Reply 5, which you claim is not critical, but very obviously is, or your reply to LifeOnWry’s comment, which essentially boils down to:

LOW: “I like the commitment marriage tasks you to adopt.”
You: “Well, my boyfriend and I could do the same thing without getting married.”

That’s a rebuttal; you are literally saying “your position here is at least partially invalid, because I know that the advantage you ascribe to marriage can be had without marriage.” That’s a fine opinion and you may be right, but it doesn’t sound to me like you’re particularly interested in LifeOnWry’s opinion. She said a lot of interesting things, none of which you asked about.

If you think phrasing things in “question form” means they can’t be critical - well, I don’t believe you really think that, because it’s just plain dumb, and you aren’t dumb. PunditLisa phrased it very well; you’ve tried to deflect almost everything people have said. Perhaps you just did an unusually poor job of expressing yourself, but my reading comprehension skills are first-rate, and I know a rebuttal when I see one.

If you think I’m full of shit, that’s dandy; this is, after all, IMHO, and you’re entitled to yours, but I think you might get a little more out of your question if you’d spend more time reflecting on the answers and less time playing opinion tennis. If you don’t want to, hey, your loss.

43

No, you don’t need to get married. You can simply live together without rings and a piece of paper, and many people do.

To some people, that’s the coward way to do it. It says, “Hey, we can quit whenever we want!” I don’t agree with this because divorce isn’t that hard and you can get nasty settlements out of breakups even without a marriage. So I don’t think not getting married is any “easier” than getting married, as far as ending the relationship is concerned.

So why do people get married? I don’t know. I got married because I felt it was the right thing to do. I can’t say I haven’t had my doubts at times, but so far it’s lasted 8 years without too many problems.

If you don’t want to get married, then don’t. I’m certainly not going to convince you to do it. But come on - “Why do people get married?” They do it because of tradition, because it’s symbolic, because of their religion, because of society. I don’t want to have kids and don’t expect anyone to try to convince me otherwise, but I don’t go around wondering why other people have them.

44

Hell, I HAVE kid(s) and I sometimes wonder why.

45

SilverFire,

My attitude on marriage was (and is) much like yours. But I had a wedding (if you want to call it that - six minutes in front of a judge - cost less than $100 total, license and judge’s fees), filed the license and wear and ring and I’m darn glad I bothered.

Its no bigger committment, hubby and I were pretty committed before the vows. I went along with the wedding because he wanted to do it, and it made life easier for me (no more referring to him as “that heathen I shack up with”), and it kept peace with my family. I didn’t have a principled “no marriage” stance, just really didn’t see the purpose.

Then we tried to have children - which I think can happen in a committed relationship without benefit of a marriage license and the kids do just fine. But ours didn’t happen. And they didn’t happen. And so we showed up at an adoption agency. The program that appealed most to us was the South Korean program. Requirements: married three years (and some other stuff). Fair?, perhaps not, but I’m not in the position to argue with the Korean government. And that meaningless ceremony I went through turned out to be very meaningful indeed.

My MIL just got married to the guy she’d been living with for over 15 years. She wanted to retire, he has decent benefits, so they got married for the same reason college students all over the country make the leap - health insurance. Once again, fair? Perhaps not. But she doesn’t have the drive to change the system when she can just file a $60 license (the marriage was performed at no cost by a friend, and was even shorter than mine, in fact I think it was “Since you’ve made the committment to each other, and shared that committment with your friends and family, I’m here to sign the license”).

46

This seems to be turning into a debate.

47

It’s a way to keep families together through the inevitable smaller fights.

That’s pretty much it. If divorce were simplier, and more fair (on the lines of splitting any other partnership), more families would break up with the smaller fights, and marriage would be unimportant.

48

I was SO glad to see someone refute the idea that marriage is “just a piece of paper.” Yes, it involves a piece of paper, but that does not negate it’s value. After all, isn’t a $1000.00 bill just a piece of paper? And how about your paycheck? Or a contract? Or a deed? Yet no one in their right minds would turn their noses up in contempt at these items—they would recognize and appreciate their value.

And as for the oft repeated accusation that people like me marry because we’re insecure in our relationships–well, that’s just rubbish. The reason I got married was because I was absolutely certain that we would last forever. No one says, “You are only buying that expensive car because you think it won’t work.” You’d only commit to such a puchase because you believe in it’s long-term value.

By the way–in less than two weeks, we will celebrate 16 happy years. There have been ups and downs, but the pluses have far outweighed any negatives. We have two wonderful and are expecting a third in March and I cannot regret my decision to marry! :slight_smile:

49

Children–we have two wonderful CHILDREN. Pregancy kills brain cells, I just know it!! :smiley:

50

I just got married less than a month ago.

It was, without a doubt, the happiest day of my life, and I’ve had some happy days. It was the culmination of over a year of courting, and the commencement of an eternal union.

Mushiness aside, there were many reasons for us to get married. My wife and I love each other with all our hearts, and want to solemnize that love for all to see. As has already been mentioned here, we are now a family. I am able to look at my wife and know that I will have her companionship forever.

I am rather surprised that no one has brought up religious reasons for marriage. I realize that this is IMHO, not GD, but let’s not forget that marriage is originally a religious institution, as well as a legal one. Many (most?) religions prescribe marriage as a prerequisite to sexual activity.

As members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, my wife and I were sealed in a temple, for time, and all eternity. In this ceremony, we did not pledge ourselves to one another “until death do us part”. We were sealed to one another forever.

Now, I know that this may mean little to those holding different views, but it is the most meaningful thing to us. There is nothing that can be said to convince me that marriage in general, or this marriage in particular, is a bad thing.

51

My marriage is basically a business contract.
If you ever watch day-time court television, you will see that while verbal agreements are valid, they are hard to prove. Up to the point we got married, all we had was a verbal contract. Considering the fact that I was about to move in with the guy anyway, and whether I like it or not, we were going to be sharing everything, we decided we needed to make the verbal contract a written one.
Furthermore, Jaime was paying appromixmately 22% in federal taxes. Since we’ve been married, he pays half that. When you are a starving young couple, and 1/2 the equation is going to school full time, that extra 11% is a very, very big deal.(I’m talking the difference between eating for a month and not eating for a month)
And who can forget health insurance? I sure can’t. If it wasn’t for him, I wouldn’t have any.

52

There are some things that seem to fit together, you know: Spaghetti and meatballs, macaroni and cheese and my wife and I.

Did we need the piece of paper and rings? Nah, I suppose not. We would have been together these 20 or so years without them. But she thinks they’re special and that’s enough for me. You see, I love her.

There are just some things that simply seem right. This does, at least for us. Is it intellectually supportable? I guess not. But, I have found in my experience that a lot of the good feeling stuff of life is often not intellectually supportable. Think about it.

So when it feels right and seems to work, I don’t analyze it. What’s the point?

53

I’d been working on this post about two weeks ago, on and off figuring I’d start a thread when it got somewhere close to what I felt was complete, but I submit it to you as it is right now and in this thread. I have read every post in this thread so far and I understand and appreciate that what has been said are personal opinions and experiences. FWIW: Silver and I chatted briefly last night so I don’t feel I’m hijacking her thread.
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Why get married?

boli brought up, I feel, a good point in the thread asking about committing infidelity.

So, that was the impetus, but this is something that’s been floating around my mind for a while.

Seriously, what is the reason, logical, practical, sensible reason for getting married in this day and age? Shared expenses and increased buying power? Raising children? Tending pets? Vacation partner? Sharing life’s experiences? Every one of these could be done by a couple simply living together. Why the need for a commitment ceremony saying “Hey, these two are bonded together because they stood here and said some words and paid the priest/rabbi/pastor/justice of the peace/father some cash.” Why the need for a legal and binding document?

Are people so insecure that they have to have a legal license to keep them together? If they find out that they made a mistake, they are stuck because they signed a document. It’s ridiculous to think that peoples feelings will never change, that their wants and desires will remain the same over the years. It’s also ridiculous to think that the person who once shared your dreams and desires will grow and change in the same way you do. It’s asinine to think that.

Arden Ranger had a great piece in Teemings titled A History of Anglo-Saxon Wedding Customs which contained this bit (underlined emphasis mine):

We know that almost 50% of marriages (in America, I guess) end in divorce, it’s almost turned into formalized dating! My original post, back in the “cheating” thread was this:

I’ve sort of spun out on adding to this post, so I’ll leave it here for now.

I, too, ask for your opinions, thoughts and/or anecdotes.

54

Damn, I just remembered something else: most marriages happen, what, between the ages of 18 and 30, right? Not really the time of greatest enlightenment. I’m not suggesting that those that get married later in life have a better marriage, but it seems ridiculous to me that someone who is just starting to figure out how to live is going to be able to decide, to have the wherewithal to determine, who they think they should spend the rest of their life with.

55

I got married at 20. I lived with hubby for a year and a half before marrying in the eyes of the law mostly because of odd disasters delaying the initial plans to get married. The one big thing that changed because of the piece of paper is that I was allowed to know how he was doing in the hospital. Imagine calling the hospital and they won’t tell you how your loved one is doing. His mother did not like me an told the hospital that I was not allowed to know how he was or to visit.

Marriage, especially young marriage based on love and deep caring is worth it. I pledged until death do us part in 1987. We made it legal in 1989.

56

Wow, I’m glad I clicked on this thread.

Even though I stand by what I said in the other thread on infidelity (which thinksnow quoted above), I want to expand and clarify my position. I’m NOT against marriage. I want to get married someday, provided I find the right person. The whole key is finding that right person. What I’m against, regarding marriage, is staying in it when you (and possibly your spouse) are miserable together. You’re doomed to spend the rest of your LIFE with this person just because at one point you really thought they were “the one”? Nope, not me. Life is short. We all deserve to live with as much happiness and contentment that we can find.

Hmm, that might be off the topic. Here’s another example of how I look at things (and I know I’m not alone on this):

Couple A: Two people who date each other. Each considers the other their “boyfriend/girlfriend”. Neither is overly crazy about the other, but they enjoy each other’s company and haven’t found anyone better.

Couple B: silver fire’s brother’s situation. Deeply committed couple, pledged their lives to one another (unofficially, but still). Having a child, etc. Can only refer to each other as “boyfriend/girlfriend”.

See the difference? To a stranger, both couples have the same level of couplehood. You would have to launch into a lengthy explanation to convey the seriousness of Couple B’s situation. Marriage conveys that very simply.

Not that I’m running around trying to break up relationships, but I consider anyone who isn’t married to be somewhat available. I stress the word “somewhat”, but available nonetheless.

57

To be clear, I see myself getting married in the future, too, but I’m not sure why save that it is “the thing to do when you love someone and want to spend your life with them.”

I understand that with marriage comes the right to make life and death decisions and have access to them when they can not make choices, but I would argue that these are things that should be available to life-partners as well.

Aren’t people considered “common-law” married after living together for 7 (seven) years?

58

…and the line forms on the right… :wink:

Well, I addressed this a bit in this GD thread, but I think I’ll re-state it:

Your first question has it backwards. The license should only be gotten once the insecurity is wiped away for good. See, I think that’s the big mis-understanding here. Everyone’s looking at it from the wrong direction. A marriage is supposed to be the final step, a fomal declaration after the two involved have realized that they want to stay together forever. This declaration can be either civil or religious, but if they want their commitment to be publicly known, well, they have to make it publicly known. That’s the reason for weddings and rings - they’re outward signs of an inward commitment.

Silver Fire, the preceding paragraph is also aimed at your OP and other questions you’ve had here.

Again, it’s not the paper that’s important, here. It’s the commitment. No one is stuck. If it’s a civil union, it’s easily dissolved. If it’s a religious one that involved the words “love”, “honor”, “cherish”, “forsaking all others”, then, if these conditions are no longer extant, it cannot be considered sinful to dissolve the marriage.

Hmm. Strong words, I think. “ridiculous”? “asinine”? Maybe to you…

I’ve found differently. “Dating” my wife actually involved spending nearly every minute of free time I had with her for over three years. You find out a lot about a person when you spend that much time with her. I found someone who’s philosophies and ideas were quite in line with mine. I found someone who taught me something new every day.

But what feelings, wants, and desires do you expect would change? I’m most decidedly not the same person I was three years ago, when I married her, or six years ago, when I met her. She’s not the same person either. And yes, in fact, we have grown together. When you share a life with someone, change isn’t abrupt. It happens gradually, which gives the other person time to adapt to those changes.

And why do we adapt to these changes?

Because we’re married.

59

Just wantd to kinda highlight the points Dangerosa, Commander Fortune, and pepperlandgirl made about the utility to society as a whole of the legal aspects of marriage.

One simple example, you are certainly free to live with whoever you wish without getting married. But as a matter of public policy, should your employer be required to provide insurance for your partner? Why?

All kinds of lines have to be drawn in our complex society. It just seems at present that a good portion of our society doesn’t mind legal matrimony as one of those lines. BTW, I am fully in favor of allowing gay couples to engage in legally binding contracts, whether called marriage or anything else, to entitle them to such as insurance, property rights, and “health-care” rights.

I thought cranky’s 1st post made several good points.

And tho it may be admitting that I am a spineless bastard, I acknowledge that if it were not for the legal relationship, my wife and I might not have made it 16 years. For us, in the heat of battle, it has been a good thing that ending our contractual relationship would be more complicated than simply walking out the door.

Final point, one of my good friends expoused the “we don’t need no stinking piece of paper” attitude. When he finally got tired of all the hassles, his 7-year old son was the ringbearer at his mom and dad’s wedding.

Final final point, did you set forth your arguments against marriage - other than your initial response expressing a desire to save the cost of the wedding? Sorry if I overlooked it.

60

Validity of “common-law” marriage is state-specific. Not valid in Illinois. (If you really need it, I can easily pull up cites.)

Among the legal rights I forgot, intestate inheritance.