No.
It goes: I am nice guy. I have been nothing but nice to this girl. Oh she doesn’t like me. That means women don’t like nice guys.
The real message is: the subset of women you were nice to in exchange for sexual favors didn’t like YOU.
He did not. He moved on to something else. He was an architecture major, which maybe makes it less weird? He was always jumping obsessively from one thing to another. I doubt he stayed an architect.
Some people are so weird they just stay with you long after you knew them.
He was diagnosed Bipolar and OCPD (that’s obsessive compulsive personality disorder), I hope to God he figured out he was autistic. He was a damned genius. But he was maybe damned to never stay with anything long enough to complete anything.
It’s been a long time since I was a young teen, but I remember a profound sadness that treating people with kindness and respect wasn’t enough to make girls want to date me. I was way too stubborn to try to appear to be something I wasn’t no matter how lonely I became. Bear in mind that at this point in my life I thought I was very physically unattractive, It didn’t occur to me at the time that my fear of being rejected made me behave in ways that made girls uneasy.
And this demonstrates a problem with this discussion; it’s all about bashing men. Because after all, it’s not possible that a man could actually be nice; he’s a man, after all. Less than human. No, the only possible reason for him to act nice is that he’s trying to trick a woman into having sex with him.
I don’t see that in what Zoobi said at all.
It looks like the standard slam at men to me. “Oh, it’s not like you’re actually nice, you just want to use some woman.”
The part I didn’t see was “all”. I didn’t see that they were generalizing. Just my opinion, of course.
No one in this thread has said anything close to this.
You can’t argue with someone who has decided to take the black pill.
Well, no, actually nice guys do exist. But they’re not whining about how women don’t want to date them because they go for bad boys or jerks - they’re well adjusted enough to understand that it’s OK if someone doesn’t want to date you.
Untrue. My brother is a genuine nice guy, and I do recall him talking about one girlfriend left him because he was too nice. Her new boyfriend hit her, which is how she “knew” he loved her.
And yes, “women don’t like nice guys because they prefer abusers” is an opinion I’ve seen fairly often over the years from men who don’t abuse women.
The danger here is overgeneralizing. Just because it has happened don’t mean it happens frequently. And just because several men (or women, for that matter) believe something doesn’t make it true. There are people who believe that women should be subservient to men too.
I mean, sure, there are crazy people out there; it’s a big world. But if you think a significant portion of women view physical abuse in that way, you must have been exposed to a very different set of women than I have. And I don’t just mean women of my generation.
I’ve heard lots of opinions from lots of people over the years. Not all of them were true.
“I prefer abusers” is not an opinion I heard from bir a behavior I have observed in any women, ever.
Yes.
Also, yes. (Der Trihs, aren’t you quite an ardent atheist? It should be very easy for you to think of a belief that quite a few men (and women) hold that you think is horseshit, if so…)
That show was mad genius.
At the risk of digression, that idea that abused women choose abusive relationships is a pernicious and harmful idea that really misses the mark in terms of understanding what domestic violence is. A domestic violence situation is one in which agency is taken from the victim. This is done in many ways, usually methodically and quite intentionally: first flooding the victim with kindness and love, making them feel special and wanted, making real sacrifices to be with the victim, being extremely convincingly The One. Then, gradually, like slowly boiling a pot, isolating the victim, cutting them off from their most important relationships, cutting them off from their ability to make a living, psychologically abusing them - and here I don’t think using the overused term gaslighting is a stretch at all. So much about domestic violence is the dedication abusers have to controlling their victims’ perception of reality. “I know he loves me because he hits me” sounds crazy and wrong to people who have never been victimized in this way, but that is the abuser’s worldview which has been forced onto the victim. It is common for victims of captivity - ranging from children who are abused to victims of domestic abuse to prisoners of war - to identify with the abuser, feel guilty about any anger they might have about their abuse, and to take on the abuser’s worldview (see Trauma and Recovery, Judith Herman.)
Getting out of an abusive relationship requires undoing all of that psychological damage while simultaneously overcoming seemingly insurmountable logistical barriers to independence. Imagine that someone has all your money, your IDs, your medications, your car, and is threatening to kill your dog (or children) if you leave. You don’t have a single person you can reach out to. You haven’t worked in three years. And you believe that you are a worthless unloveable human being who is incapable of taking care of yourself. And if your partner strangles you, which is a really common power and control tactic, you may suffer from stroke-like symptoms, including mobility issues, memory loss, vision problems, you name it.
Blaming anyone for their own abuse is wrong. Framing it as somehow womens’ fault in a society where women tend to have fewer options for escape than men is really beyond the pale.
Oh, you’re absolutely right. Very well said and excellent post over all.
Yes, if Der Trihs’ brother’s ex-girlfriend said that she knows her new boyfriend loves her because he hits her, that’s absolutely a crazy belief, but she almost certainly is going to be holding it because her abusive new boyfriend made her feel that way through the techniques you describe above.
Courtney Love covered a beautiful but depressing song about precisely that. “He hit me, but it felt like a kiss” - by the Crystals.
That was written by Carole King and Gerry Goffin for their babysitter Little Eva Boyd. King, who was a victim of domestic violence herself, regrets writing it now but it was about honestly describing Little Eva’s feelings for her abusive partner not about violence being a true show of love.
I’ve had a sexual partner who wanted me to hit and choke her. She was seriously into that. And while I kind of understand the idea of dom/sub dynamics in a theoretical relationship, I just can’t hit a woman. It is just too far from what my mother taught me.
We broke up, she moved overseas, and, well, I was quite happy with that. We are still friends.