"On Fighting Ignorance" and Melin

Congrats on the 1K, and welcome back, Rick. At this rate, you’ll pass me in June or so :smiley:


Coldfire
Voted Poster Most Likely To Post Drunk


"You know how complex women are"

  • Neil Peart, Rush (1993)

Welcome back, and congratulations, Bricker. I’ll pencil your 2000 celebration in for sometime in June!

I’m certainly glad to see that you decided to hang around, Bricker. Congrats on the 1000 posts. They’ve all been good.

I said it in another thread, but I’ll say it again here, Welcome back Bricker! Congrats on 1000!! They have all been what I would call the ‘meat’ of the board.


I will not celebrate meaningless milestones.

Thank the gods, Bricker. We’ve never really encountered each other, but I second Psycat’s point. You are a fine example of what SDMB should be- intelligent and witty; You can hit the answers in GQ, and handle yourself in GD, and then come relax in MPSIMS without throwing your brain out the window.

Salute!

–John


'Twis brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gymble in the wabe.
Mimsy were the borogroves,
And the momeraths outgrabe.

If I may ask, Bricker, why did you feel you were owed answers from anybody?

I mean, I don’t know Melin. She seemed like a good poster. If you do know her, call her or email her and get answers (which, apparently, you did).

Demanding answers from the board admins ‘or else I won’t play here anymore’ (paraphrase) came off as a melodramatic display of an overinflated sense of self- and board-importance, in my humble.

Oh, and welcome back.


“Nothing is so firmly believed as what is least known” - Michel Gyquem de Montaigne

Milossarian:
To some of us who expressed concern over Melin’s banning and the manner in which it was handled, there were really only teo meaningful questions: do I feel the situation was handled well, if not what action(s) should I take in response.

The possible answers to the second are constrained by the structure of this board: spoeak out, accept it without comment, refuse to participate. Bricker simply outlined which of those options he felt would have been appropriate should the answer to the first be sufficiently negative.

As to that first question, information is always required in order to make an informed decision. Asking for information is not demanding; neither Melin nor the SDMB moderators/administrators were required to provide anything. In the absence of information, of course, it is reasonable to make inferences about the reason(s) for silence.

All of this hinges, of course, upon the sense that their is in fact a decision which must be made. For me, the answer to that question is yes. A person was banned from this board for reasons which were not justified based upon her posts or behavior on this board. I felt a need to determine whether or not the situation represented an unjustice to Melin. If my anser to that question had been yes, then I would have been left with the options I mentioned above.

As it stands:
I believe that Melin’s letter to the SDMB was an overeaction and that it forced an adversarial relationship with the parties involved.
I believe that the SDMB is justified in distancing themselves from Melin in whatever means they deem appropriate.
I believe that the SDMB showed poor judgment and ethical cowardice in not executing their proposed solution immediately.
I believe the SDMB was disingenuous in attempting to portray Melin’s behavior after the defamation threat was resolved.
I believe that the past antagonism between Melin and some of the SDMB staff was a definite factor in behaviors from both sides – which simply means that all parties involved are human.
I wish that another solution had been found, because I will miss Melin’s voice on this board, but I do not feel I need to either leave these forums or spend the next several months criticizing the administration for their handling of this affair.
I hope that all parties involved exercise the wisdom to see what mistakes they may have made, and I trust all parties involved enough to believe that they will examine these questions without my (or anyone else’s) reminding them.


The best lack all conviction
The worst are full of passionate intensity.
*

Hey, thanks for the welcome! :slight_smile:

In my view, I didn’t “demand” answers. But what I saw, initially, appeared to be a very arbitrary and unfair practice. By way of analogy, let us assume that I was a frequent guest at an upscale country club, and became aware that blacks, Jews, and Democrats were seemingly being excluded on a regular basis. Now, the latter is of course acceptable :), but the former two are not, at least to me.

So in that situation, my choices would be to leave, to remain in silence, or to ask questions in an effort to discern if my first impression was accurate. As a guest, I would be in no position to demand a change to the club’s policies, but discovering exactly what those policies were would aid me in a final decision to stay or go.

While not exactly on point, I feel the situation here was similar. Ed’s first post gave an impression which I thought was very arbitrary. I didn’t want to be a part of a club that would treat one of its members like that.

Further discussions revealed more of the story, and made me understand that, while I didn’t completely agree with the decision, it was not arbitray, but based on legitimate concerns. Accordingly, I returned.

Now, I wasn’t “owed” any answers, nor did I believe that the board would grind to a halt absent my luminous presence. I simply acted in what I believed to be an honorable manner. Why didn’t I stay and request answers by posting on the boards? Because I felt it in poor taste to use the SDMD facilities to, in essence, badger the straight dope staff.

I hope that clears up things.

  • Rick

It does.

One point that I haven’t really seen made in all the threads on this subject today –

the person who was really owed an explanation for why this occurred was Melin herself, and from everything I’ve read in the Pit, she seemed to understand why it happened, if not agree.


“Nothing is so firmly believed as what is least known” - Michel Gyquem de Montaigne

I think that the reasonable thing to do is for Melin and Ed/Tuba to try and settle their differences like reasonable, enlightened people. If they remain at an impasse, so be it.


-Dave
“Violence is the last refuge of the ignorant.”
-I. Asimov

Spiritus Mundi,

{{{I wish that another solution had been found, because I will miss Melin’s voice on this board, but I do not feel I need to either leave these forums or spend the next several months criticizing the administration for their handling of this affair.
I hope that all parties involved exercise the wisdom to see what mistakes they may have made, and I trust all parties involved enough to believe that they will examine these questions without my (or anyone else’s) reminding them.}}}}}

You said this better than I ever could. I’m still sad the way things have turned out, but certainly the last message from Ed Zotti ends it, that there will be no peaceful resolution.

I do understand a few things a bit more clearly, with the letters and links that were offered up in the Pit.

I’m going to miss Melin’s posts but I’m also not one to keep harping on something or needling anyone about a subject on which we might disagree. Nothing will get solved or resolved in that way.

Judy

I definitely will miss Melin and hope she will be allowed to return someday soon. She’s been a long-time acquaintance and I found her posts very enjoyable to read.

The thing about Melin getting heat for her sig saying “Voted Best Moderator Emeritus” is just plain silly. What, will a newbie accidentally fall into a pit of burning lava if he mistakes Melin for a moderator? I don’t understand why this was such a big deal.


Lemonade…10 cents
Snakes…50 cents

“Impersonation” is generally considered to be a no-no on most message boards. For AOL, “impersonation” is an offense that is in contravention of the Terms of Service. For example, someone posing as Cecil or Ed Zotti or the Chicago READER managment on this board would be kicked off pretty quickly.

I respect Melin immensely.

But … perhaps useful analogy is the parent, who’s had about all she can take for one day, says between clenched teeth, “That’s IT! If I hear one more peep out of you, you’e going to bed without any supper.”

And then the child says, “Peep.”

So why is the child in her room with no supper? Because she said the word “Peep”? C’mon, that’s just plain silly!

But of course, that doesn’t tell the whole story. It wasn’t just the peep, but rather the aggregate effect of all sorts of behavior, of which the peep was the proverbial last straw.

I don’t mean to suggest Melin was childish here… just that the story above is a good analogy for it’s “last straw” feature.

I would not have reacted as Ed did. But I understand his reasons now. His mistake - one of his mistakes - was not explaining things more clearly right away. Melin’s mistake was to immediately sail the Sixth Fleet into Straight Dope Harbor in a show of force which, so far as I can tell, terrified The Reader. And… having dodged disaster with that, and having everything on the road to Smoothed Over… Melin peeped.

  • Rick

Well, at any rate, I hope Melin is allowed back someday. I’ll miss her.

Pretty good explanation, Rick, in my opinion.


Some days you’re the dog, some days you’re the hydrant.

You mixed those metaphors very gracefully, Bricker.


“His eyes are as green as a fresh-pickled toad,
His hair is as dark as a blackboard,
I wish he was mine, he’s really divine,
The hero who conquered the Dark Lord.”

My reply/reaction is in the Pit, in Alphagene’s “why do you stay here” thread.
No insult to the OP here; after reading all the endless info on this, past and present, it’s just where I ended up.

'Nuff said. (Actually, too MUCH has been said, IMO.) Speaking strictly for myself…

Moving along now,
Veb

Sweet Jesus. Would that shooting a Pope or a President could draw forth such an outpouring of passion in this world.

I’ve just spent an ungodly amount of time reading through this mess from sea to foaming sea, and I’ve seen enough high-minded after-the-fact editorial punditry and moralistic grandstanding on both sides of this issue to last me a lifetime.

And yet, with the dust still rising, the song remains the same – We’ve yet to figure out how to forgive a sin until after it has been committed. Unfortunately, by then the will to forgive has generally been obscured by pain and tears and hang-wringing converted into ego and stubbornness and posturing.

For all the IQ points involved, one would think that such a classic study in human frailty might have been easily avoided.
Dr. Watson
“The map is not the territory.”