They don’t have my full knowledge and consent. They started taking her without my permission and I found out where she was going and when I did find out, I was told it was “game night” - my daughter says it also includes a large bible study component. I don’t mind, I think exposure to many things makes for better people.
Oh, I’m not an atheist. And I think its great she’s being exposed. I think the attempt at conversion is funny and thought you guys would appreciate it. And the books I’ve loaned her - To Kill A Mockingbird.
I’m a little horrified at how many people are saying it’s a horrible thing to lend a kid books. I guess it’s because when I was twelve, I was reading all sorts of things my parents would probably not have totally approved of had they actually read the books (since they hadn’t, they were none the wiser). Many of these were recommended by other people (who, to be fair, probably had no idea my parents would or would not have approved; they were thinking about me and what I would like and not my parents). (Nothing terrible – the most risque thing I can think of was The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, and that was recommended to me by a friend who just thought it was a good story, not because she wanted to corrupt me.)
Ironically, when my sister was going through adolescence my parents kept trying to get her to read “that science fiction stuff” because they had figured out (correctly) that it was correlated to an interest in science. And I must say that I think they were correct that it was better than the saccharine romances she would sometimes bring home
For the record: I’m a Christian (though an agnostic one). And I have a daughter, and I’d like to think I’d totally be cool with it if other people lent her books that didn’t correspond to my worldview (I’d like to think I’d raise her well enough that she’d come talk to me if she had issues, but that’s my problem and not the problem of the people who might lend her books).
My objection is not to lending a kid books, it’s to lending a kid books when you are confident the parents would object to you lending those books to their child.
Little children and pretty birdies? Racism, a mockery of a rape trial that was hardly any better than the lynching it supposedly prevented, attempted murder and a frankly weird shut-in, and ISTR drug addiction comes in at one point as well. You have read TKAM I take it? :dubious:
Has your daughter invited her friend to some of the UU youth activities? Now there’s an education!
I hope your daughter is in the UU sex ed program. Both my girls went through it, and ended up very well educated about the topic, and navigated their way into their mid 20’s and stable relationships much more easily as a result (or so they’ve reported.)
Exactly, thank you. Additionally, when I let my own children go to a friend’s house, it suggests that I trust those people with my child. I am telling her-it is ok to go with these people. Let’s not pretend that at 12 yo, that other parent is not, at that time, in a position of authority. Shame on anybody who abuses that trust.
It seems that everyone is cool with this because they don’t object to the books Dangerosa is sharing. I don’t find To Kill a Mockingbird objectionable myself. Would your opinion change if she was saying, oh, I don’t know something like-“Ha, condoms are stupid, they take all the fun out of sex.” Or maybe, “Oh, you poor child of Hindu parents, your parents are SO unreasonable, here, have a piece of sausage, its delish!”
I am not sure how anyone takes a 12 yo somewhere without their parents knowledge and consent. But if someone did, the proper response is “Hey, asshole, I don’t take my kid there because I don’t want her there. Mind your business, and quit trying to indoctrinate my kid with your crap.” Then you don’t let your child go out with them again. Easy.
Since this has turned from a report of one person’s experience to a discussion of the pros and cons of her activities, I’m moving this to IMHO, our advice and opinions forum.
My daughter also got invited to a church for fun and games, and went to a bunch of Mormon dances. No problems - she thought they were all nuts. You can be sure that any time a church gets someone in their doors it is time for indoctrination - that is what they do. I’m proud that she is good enough at critical thinking for the glurge to run off her.
As for books - Girl with the Dragon Tattoo might be a bit much, but TKAM is taught in high school. My parents never monitored what I took from the library. At 12 kids are old enough to read anything age appropriate without parental mind control.
TKAM was on the recently published top ten banned books list, by the way. I bet no atheists were trying to ban it. Whether or not parents own a kid, intellectual shackles are not much better than physical ones.
I’m all about encouraging kids to read, but if you have any reason to think a book would be objectionable, you should ask the kid’s parents first. Ditto for movies. It’s just common courtesy.
It sounds like your kid and her friend are both smart and enjoying learning from each other. Don’t ruin it.
She’s doing nothing wrong. She’s doing a wonderful thing for a child and should be applauded for it. Good for you, Dangerosa. This is a great thing to do, and this girl may be really grateful to you one day.
So am I, and not just because the site motto here is Fighting Ignorance. The parents want to limit their daughter’s exposure to literature and the world; she wants to go beyond their small-minded grasp and Dangerosa is helping. It’s a good thing to do, and the “gasp! ulterior motives!” stuff is nonsense.
I wonder why the OP can’t say, “Hey, Judy, I have a copy of this book that I think Madelyn will love—To Kill a Mockingbird. It was one of my favorites when I was her age.”
We have no basis to suppose that this gift will be nixed. I dare say considering that the child’s mother has allowed her other books such as The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo and the Harry Potter series, we can probably surmise that it won’t be a problem at all.
I understand that this doesn’t have the drama-llama vibe of cloak and dagger samizdat trading, but it will enable the OP to take the high road and accomplish what we hope is her objective: broadening her daughter’s friend’s exposure to literature and not scoring points against a parent who anyway has hitherto shown no tendency unreasonably to restrict her daughter’s reading material.
Is there actually proof that the parents would definitely find To Kill a Mockingbird objectionable?
Hm. Noooo… I don’t think that’s why I’m cool with it. I’m cool with it because they are books, and because books were so important to me in widening my worldview. While yes, I would not like it if someone said those things to my child, my opinion would not change if someone lent my kid a book that said “Ha, condoms are stupid!” (…in point of fact, I remember reading way too many of those as an adolescent) or one that said “Mormons are stoopid!” (I’m Mormon, for the record, so it would certainly bother me, very much, if Dangerosa said such a thing to my child.) I guess because I think I would have to trust my child at that point, as my parents had to trust me, that she could read a wide variety of books and figure things out. I mean, my God, I was reading Sweet Valley High at that age! Talk about objectionable!
And, heh. It’s interesting the book was To Kill a Mockingbird, because as a matter of fact, I did not lend one of my friend’s children that book (I lent him a lot of other books, and bought him some too) because my friend, who is extremely conservative about some things, knew rape was featured prominently in it and was worried about it. I represented to him in the strongest terms that there was nothing explicit, and nothing he should be in the least worried about even by his extreme conservative standards, but I also didn’t loan his kid the book.
So, yeah, I guess I have to come down on the side of “don’t lend kids things if their parents have specifically requested them not to read it,” but that doesn’t happen all that often in my experience, and I also come down on the side of “if I suspect that if the parents read this book carefully, which they’re not going to do, and actually got all the nuances, that they might not 100% approve of it, I’m still gonna give the book to the kid.”
