Parents who try to control their kids' lives

in MPSIMS there is currently a thread on a girl who is with a Jewish boyfriend. His mother has humiliated her, and insulted her for not being Jewish. I just wanted to pit all parents like that, including my own:

I’m telling you, you’re going to lose us. Keep pushing us and we’ll leave. I left. Now I barely talk to my mother.

We are your kids, not your slaves. We won’t major in medicine/marry in the same race/cut our hair just because you say so. When the child hits 13, you should slowly start teaching him/her independence. I see some parents that are really good at this, so I know it can be done. By the time they’re 18-20, they should be ready to stand on their own if they need to. (What if you die?)

Mothers, cut the apron strings on your boys. They’re going to fall in love with some girl, and surprise! she most likely won’t measure up to your expectations. (Who could?) Look at the relationship objectively. Is it healthy? Do they fight or bicker? Do they settle issues maturely? This is more important than religion or color.

Mothers, also, deal with your adult daughters like adults. Do not treat your 16-year old daughter like she’s 5, either. She is testing limits. This doesn’t mean you should

compete with her
drop walls every direction she turns
or act her age instead of your own!

Fathers…well mostly I see mothers pulling this crap. So I’ll just say: Fathers, stand up to your wives if you see them doing this. Don’t nod and say yes, dear! This is your kids’ life!

If you push too hard you are liable to see your grandkids only once a year. Please! For the sake of procuding healthy adjusted adults!

I have had it! Go to your room!

Okay, now to make up for going for the cheap joke, a book recommendation. Only tangentially related, but what the hell. Queen Bees and Wannabes: helping your daughter survive cliques, gossip, boyfriends, and other realities of adolescence, by Rosalind Wiseman. Good book for parents of teen girls.

And don’t try to control your kids’ lives through their children–or try to control your grandchildren’s lives.

My mother informed me the other day (not asked, mind you) that she was going to sign my child up for dance lessons one day a week. Now, my husband and I have been looking for a gymnastics program for her but my mother has decided it shall be dancing instead.

What’s worse than parents who try to control their grown kids’ lives are parents who SUCCEED. One of those is the reason I’m not married right now (thank God, actually).

My mom knows that if the situation calls for it, I wouldn’t hesitate to tell her to shove it. But I can’t see her causing such a situation, either.

Without going into the whole debate of why a certain percentage of the Jewish population feels it’s wrong to even date outside their faith, let me just say what happened to that girl was horrible, and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone.

As for moms stifling their daughters: A few thoughts.

I was probably one of the wildest 16yo’s you could ever hope to meet. Cop’s daughter in a small town, rebelled at every possible chance, cut school, fought with my mother, broke rules just because I could. I look back at some of the things I did, and think “OMG, it’s amazing I wasn’t dead by the age of 20.”

I didn’t really appreciate what my parents were trying to do for me until I became a parent myself. I’m not saying they should be all stifling. But parents cannot always be your friends. Not at that age. They have responsibilities to you as a parent to teach you the realities of life before they send you out into the world. Or the world will teach those realities, and not nearly as nicely.

Yes, parents should teach their kids to be independent, starting as young as possible. But they also have to teach that there are consequences for actions. That if you fuck up, you will be punished, because that’s the way it works in the real world. If you don’t show up for class, study, put in the time, you’re going to get a bad grade. If you don’t show up for your job, show up drunk, dress slovenly, act like an ass, you’re going to get fired. If you don’t pay your phone bill/electric bill, they’re going to turn it off. If you don’t pay your rent, you’re going to be without a place to stay. Your parents don’t want to see those things happen, so they’re going to harp on you to be responsible.

I’m sorry, but a 16yo faced with paying a car payment or taking that $281 and going out partying? Which do you think he’s going to choose?

As for moms who try to dress like their daughters; I don’t honestly think those women are so much trying to compete with their daughters. I think they’re trying, in a rather sad way, to stay young, and to stay a part of their daughters’ lives. They’re just going about it the wrong way.

To the “Cutting the apron strings on your boy.” I don’t see it happening in the forseeable future. I don’t know what to tell you. Mothers hated me. I now know why. You have this person. He listens to you. He trusts your opinion completely. Then one day, he no longer listens to you, or trusts you. He listens to this little chit of a girl over here, who’s barely out of high school herself and doesn’t know squat, as far as you’re concerned. That’s hard. It hurts. Should it result in what happened in the OP? Hell, no. Is jealousy stupid and petty? Sure it is. Unfortunately, we don’t live in a world of “should be,” and these things happen.
The only thing I can suggest is to try to be as tolerant of this person as you would like them to be of you. And to maybe tell that person how you feel and why.

Parenting is a hard job. It doesn’t come with instructions. We’re going to screw up. It’s inevitable. At some point, every parent is going to make a mistake. What we’re most worried about, is making a critical mistake, one that will fuck our children up for life. And guess what? You never know. You never know which mistake was the worst one. Or if it was a mistake.

I don’t think I would have slept nearly at well at night if I knew my parents were making it up as they went along.

If there is absolutely no other way to have a car available (as in, mummy and daddy won’t provide one) the car payment’s going to win.

Your concern is not relevant if you are not the one in a relationship with her.

And is the reason why there are those who do not even speak to their parents.

After five years of attempting to explain to my parents that my life did not belong to them to live, and five years of such explanations falling on deaf ears, I moved 370 miles to make a point. Nothing made them so aware that my life’s not their second chance at their own as that move.

Once that ‘kid’ is an adult with a life of his or her own, it’s not up to you to decide what will and will not fuck them up for life. That’s their job.

Yeah? Well I was the exact opposite. I was the MOST trustworthy 16 year old around. I was the only one in our Hindu community who spoke the language, took the vows, and was immersed in our culture. I got straight A’s in my classes. I did everything just the way they wanted me to. I never got in any trouble. And they still didn’t fucking trust me. The mere mention of a boy was anathema.

It’s been ten years since I moved out. I have worked really hard on purging the bile but I don’t think it will be entirely gone for another 40 years. Some parents are just assholes. They don’t care about their kids. They just want to control them.

If you have raised your child properly then there should be no issue about letting go. And yes, it is all about teaching them independence from the age of 13 on. Very soon you as a parent are going to kick off and DIE and they will no longer have you there.

It’s not about being “friends”. It’s about realizing that the child is no longer going to listen to every word you say. You should be ready for that BEFORE the kid starts saying “no” and I have seen many parents do this admirably and steer their kids through troubled waters.

Let me tell you about critical mistakes. There is the critical mistake of fucking up your kid for life. And there is the critical mistake, equally as bad, of alienating your child forever.

I will probably never have my mother to help me if I have a kid. She will not attend my wedding. She will not be part of my life. She will not be a grandmother to my children should I choose to have them. And why?

She doesn’t approve of my lifestyle choices. I’m 28. It’s too late for her to influence me. At this point she should pitch in the towel and accept whatever I want for myself. She doesn’t have to like it, but I wish she would try for my sake.

Do you see what I’m saying? I’m not really talking about 16 year olds. I am saying, that no matter what you did when your kid was 16, you can’t control what they do when they’re 21. And if you try too hard you’ll lose them

Really? At what point am I to stop being concerned for my son’s happiness and well being? I never said I’m going to be meddling; I seriously hope I won’t and I will try my best not to. But I’m still going to be concerned and worry for them. That’s part of being a parent. It doesn’t stop at twenty. Or forty. Or ever, AFAIK.

Once they’re an adult, yes. As in: supporting themselves & paying all their own bills. Living under my roof, going to college, eating my food, with me supporting them? That’s not an adult. Sorry. And the car payment thing? Gimme a break. Maybe some 16yo’s are that responsible. Not all of them.

You moving away from your parents; that’s something you three will have to resolve. At some point, you’re going to have to accept that completely shutting them out of your life because they disagree with you about your choices is a temper tantrum. Grown ups disagree. Get used to it. They don’t have to like what you do any more than you have to like what they do. And they’re allowed to voice their opinions. Doesn’t mean you have to do what they say. Your parents are people. Give them the courtesy of allowing them to have faults.

Elenia28, I do hear what you’re saying. And I do agree with you. I was just trying to give you some perspective from the other side.
Knowing when to let go, and how much, is always difficult. As I said, there’s no manual. And if there was, it’d be in some language no one’s heard of in several thousand years. Every kid is different. My daughter is 10 times as outgoing as my son. I have no worries about her being independent. I have a feeling it’s gonna take a crowbar to get him out of his room. Sometimes kids have to be pushed, sometimes held back. And when the emotions are that high, it’s hard to keep an objective attitude.

But yes, some people shouldn’t be allowed to own dogs, much less raise children.

Maureen, I think it’s pretty clear that the OP was not talking about parents who are guiding and nurturing and tough in the right ways, but those who are overbearing and controling (controling does not equal consciencious parenting).

It’s laudable that you’re providing the ‘other’ perspective, but it’s not the other perspective to this rant.

I think you’re completely missing the point. We’re not talking about a difference of opinion between adults. We’re talking about one adult attempting to direct another adults life, and withholding love and support when that other adult doesn’t fall in line. It’s the parent in the case of the OP who is throwing the tantrum.

Nope, didn’t miss it, Eonwe, and agreed that some parents don’t deserve the kids they have. That comment was directed at catsix.

BTW Eonwe, (and I apologize to the OP for the hijack), where did you get your username? I search all those “What does your user name mean?” threads, and didn’t see you there. I like it, but it’s been keeping me up nights trying to figure it out. :stuck_out_tongue:

There is nothing to work out. They are not involved in my life because they have demonstrated that they do not merely want to be part of my life, they want to live it for me.

I gave them many, many opportunities to back down. They took none of them, and so I see no reason to continue dealing with their ‘temper tantrums’.

And when they have irreconcilable differences, it is for the best that they go their separate ways.

Had they been capable of showing me the courtesy of accepting that I am a person and not an object for them to place in their lives in the way that makes them happiest, I might be able to listen to them.

You’re an utter moron if you think I’m merely ‘throwing a tantrum’. I am 26 years old, I have a career, I support myself, and I live the life I chose to have. My parents know fuck-all about me these days because they have demonstrated that their desire to have me life the life they wanted is more important to them than knowing me. To them, I am an utter failure because I did not go to medical school, which was their choice of a life for me. These are people who refuse to accept that I am not a living piece of furniture in their lives. Why do you think I should deal with them?

I no longer live 400 miles from them, but I have limited my relationship with them to the level of acquaintances because anything more means overbearing attempts at control.

And if you think that just because you’re 26 years old, you’r not capable of throwing a temper tantrum, then I’ve given your intelligence more credit than it deserves.
You’re right, I don’t know all the details. But don’t you think that moving several hundred miles away and refusing to even speak to people who care enough about you to want to see you make the right choices (whether you agree with what they think are the “right choices” or not) is a little like putting your hands over your ears, stamping your feet, and saying “I won’t listen, I won’t, I won’t I WONT!!” ? Rather like calling someone a name just because they disagree with you.
I’m glad you set limits and this is what works for you. But I think you are personalizing this a bit much if you honestly believe that all parents should be completely hands off from the second their children are old enough to run, not walk, out of their parents’ homes.

I went back and reread the thread the OP linked. And aside from the fact that the mom is a total fucktard, it should be pointed out that Judaism is not just a “religion choice.” It isn’t just how you worship. It’s part of who you are. How you live your life on a daily basis, and deeply ingrained in the Jewish culture. This is not just a question of “I don’t like her, I’m not gonna accept her”, it goes far beyond that. But if the GF (soon to be wife) is willing to convert, I don’t understand what the mom’s problem is, unless she thinks the GF isn’t going to take it seriously.

Eonwë was the herald of Manwë, the chief of the Valar, in Tolkien’s Middle-Earth mythology.

Look, you fucking moron, you admit you don’t nkow the details yet you still think that I threw a temper tantrum by moving away so that I could live the life I chose to in peace was being childish? You have a really fucked up view of what a relationship between a parent and their adult offspring should be.

You’re still under the mistaken impression that these are people who want me to make choices that are ‘right’ for me. These are people who have made it a condition of their love that I make the choices they believe are right. Quite honestly, you don’t get it. I hope you do, before you do this to your own kids.

There’s expressing your opinion, and there’s being a meddlesome control freak bitch. Guess which category I think you’re defending?

If the son, who is in this relationship with this woman and (presumedly) wants to marry her, and he’s happy with how his girlfriend (potential wife) is handling their difference of religion, why the hell should his mother have any say in the matter? It is not his mother’s place to pitch a fit over her not converting or not being ‘serious enough’ about it. She is not the one marrying this woman.

I think you need to learn a bit about Judaism before you start making judgement calls on that. As I said, it isn’t just a religious choice. It’s embedded in their entire culture.
And yes, you are personalizing this, to the extent that apparently, you’re unable to even debate it without name calling and frothing at the mouth. Your opinion is colored by your own personal history. I realize your parents are horrible, evil people who dared to want you to go to medical school. My word, I bet they even made you eat your vegetables. What bastards.
As for my opinion of what a relationship between a parent and an adult child should be, it is simply this: I am just as deserving of their respect as they are of mine. And just because you don’t have it, doesn’t mean no one else should, either.

We can understand easily a child who separates himself from a parent who is physically or sexually abusive. We should also be understanding of situations in which the parent is emotionally abusive.

Every situation is different. There is no one rule that applies. There really are times when the emotionally healthy thing to do is to put distance between you and your parent.

The adult child can always check back from time to time to see if the parents have made any progress in accepting a different role in the life of their child. Some parents learn. Others don’t. Some can’t.

[hijack]
Maureen, yeah, what jayjay said about my username. Back when I first got on the real ‘internet’, I needed a screen name for, oh, maybe it was Yahoo chat, I don’t remember. I love Tolkien, but obviously all the obvious names (Frodo, Gandalf, Bilbo, etc) had been taken. So, I got out my trusty Tolkien encyclopedia and found a name/person I wouldn’t mind having as a user name, and there you have it!
[/hijack]

And, at the risk of jumping in the middle of something I really should stay out of, I think that “wanting to see your child make the right choices” is fine, as long as you are able to interact in a respectful way with that child when his or her decisions about ‘right’ choices differs from yours, except in some extreme circumstances.

Parents who subject their children (teenage and young adult) to passive or not-so-passive agressive guilt trips because the kid didn’t choose the career they wanted him or her to have are just flat out wrong, regardless of ‘good’ intentions. And, if the son or daughter needs to end contact to remove him or herself from an emotionally abusive relationship, then I don’t think we could fault him or her. And, not knowing the details (as you said), I don’t see why we should assume that catsix’s is unreasonable.

My parents wanted me to make the right choices. They argued strenuously for certain career paths. I did not, in the end, feel like taking those career paths.

The thing that prevented me from having to move cross-country and cut them out of my life, unlike some people, was that they didn’t make my agreeing with them and patterning my life according to their desires, a condition of their love and support.

Translation probably wasn’t their first choice as something I would do as a career, but they didn’t feel the need to remind me of that constantly, to withhold any support (practical or moral) for my career, or even to feel disappointed, I’m pretty sure.

Certainly, one cares for one’s kids, one wants them to make the same decision. But part of relating to your kid as an adult is coping with the awful realization that they might choose a career different from the one you foresaw, and that you can go with the flow or eat some crow.

Agreed, matt_mcl. But did you cut them out of your life for that?