I think some posters in this thread are giving parents a bizar amount of rights over the children. Don’t forget:
If parents are denying a child these rights (I don’t think that is the case for Dangerosa’s friend at all, but it could be the case hypothetically) then you have a duty to help the child, just as you have a duty to feed a child whose parents are denying her food.
What on earth would give parents the right to take ownership of their child’s mind I do not know. I’ve never even heard of anything so creepy. Children have the right to information and to be exposed to different points of view. Parents have the right to raise their child with their religion, that’s not the same as the right to own their child’s brain until they are 18. And please don’t come up with hypothetical situations where my three year-old gets exposed to porn, that’s just silly.
My mother has been in the situation where she had to tell my little sister’s friend that if she was really worried, she should not go on holiday to Pakistan and if needs be run away and come to my mum’s house. The way some people here are describing it she shouldn’t have done that, because the parents had every right to with her as they saw fit. Her parents were trying to marry the kid off to some pervert back home.
I’ve spent years working with kids who’d been royally screwed up by their parents. Parents don’t have some magical rights to do whatever they want with their kids; it’s the kids who have rights.
If you find what they did disrespectful, call them on it. Be an adult, and stop trying to justify your behavior by theirs. Even a twelve year old should know that “She did it first!”, does not mean its right for you to do it.
Sure, its not your job to “shut the barn door”, however, you are not just sitting by as a disinterested observer not taking action. You are calling the horses out. Can you see the difference? You are not this girls peer, your daughter is, why must you put yourself in the position of guiding her? You are the one being disrespectful. This is not a child close to adulthood, she is twelve. What your experiences were at that age are irrelevant. This is their daughter, they may be more conservative that you, that does not mean they are wrong. That means their beliefs differ from yours, which you clearly have zero respect for. You don’t have the high ground here.
Being conservative and raising your children (especially at a young age) in a somewhat sheltered environment is absolutely not in any way an indication of abuse or neglect. You are playing a game with someone else’s child (and yours), your intent is to convert their daughter just as much as they tried to convert yours. It is just as wrong. Your job as a parent is to supervise your children and their friends when they are in your home. I don’t think you have to go out of your way to censor what might normally be seen, but you are actively and intentionally flouting their conventions just to prove a point. And what is that point? Wah, wah, they did it first!!
Do you do this active of an interest in all of your children’s friends? If not you are singling her out for her (or her family’s) religious beliefs. You are targeting her. That is not nice.
I stand corrected about you asking for an opinion. Didn’t notice that this thread had been moved. Still, you had to know you’d GET opinions. This is still the Dope, afterall
And just because I wouldn’t do what you are doing doesn’t make it wrong. Afterall, I also wouldn’t do any muckraking journalism, travel to foreign countries giving aid to the poor and misfortunate, or many other perfectly good deeds. But I’m glad other people are willing to do things I won’t. It would be a damn boring world, otherwise.
I think you’re taking what Dangerosa said a bit further than she actually intends. She isn’t indoctrinating the child, she’s giving the kid a book that her mother may or may not object to. She is also offering the kid a place where she can hear other ideas, gather new information, share her own views. It isn’t a game, as I said in my earlier post: that is the child’s right.
Well, Gracer, that may be all that she is offering. However, the other girl’s parents could say the exact same thing about taking Dangerosa’s daughter to church. Dangerosa herself said that she considered it disrespectful. That’s the problem. I personally do not think it would be outrageous lo lend a child an age-appropriate book. When you do it specifically to spite the parents, you are crossing a line. They did it first doesn’t justify doing it back. You don’t play games with other people’s kids. It is wrong. Wrong for one and wrong for two. It is targeting this girl for special treatment based on her (or her family’s) beliefs.
I see what you mean, and of course, doing something out of spite is a pretty bad reason for doing anything. But that’s where I get the impression that you’re talking what Dangerosa says too seriously.
I think the parents taking Dangerosa’s daughter to church specifically without telling her was a little extreme, especially since it is clear that Dangerosas’ daughter is exposed to many influences and not denied freedom of religion in any way. They were perhaps being a little dishonest, though I don’t think the intention was bad.
I don’t think however that Dangerosa really has nasty intentions here, or that she is doing something she thinks the parents will terribly disagree with. I think it is all a little less dramatic than you are making it out to be. She’s on good term with the parents, it’s not a huge crossing of boundaries or lack of respect. She’s giving the kid a book.
I would also add again that being (dis)respectful (though I don’t think it’s the case here) to the parents is less important than honouring the rights of the child by offering her freedom of expression.
No, the standard is the same. If you have a party for your 12 yo and her friends here are normal behaviors: play another Justin Bieber song, help them make suncatchers, bring popcorn and pretzels, order the pizza, etc…
Going out of your way to share your life views, philosophies, and ideas with a specific one girl, just to spite her parents, is way beyond the scope of normal, expected behaviors. It is out of line, it is not your role to do that with your kids friends. It does not matter what personal wisdom you may be sharing.
Here’s a preemptive bs to whoever says its not for spite. Its right there in the thread title.
Dangerosa, I don’t think you are trying to do harm, and it may well be that no harm comes from your actions. But doing this is not nice.
Do I sound like I mind. You are certainly entitled to your opinion. I’m just telling you that a) I didn’t ask for it and b) I’m not changing my behavior.
I don’t think taking the child to church is disrespectful, or telling her new ideas. I do think that trying to convert her is. There is a line there that you are not seeing, that is rather bright to me.
You are reading a lot more into this than what happened.
As to the book, I had a copy of To Kill a Mockingbird out. My daughter’s friend said “I’ve been meaning to read that” I said “you can borrow that copy, and I’d be interested to hear what you think when you finish it.”
Well, you say that is what already happened. Your OP is about how you will be glad to have another chance to influence this girl at your daughter’s party. That’s two different things. If you feel the parents have crossed a line with your daughter, you should call them on it. You don’t make a plan of how you can do something with their daughter they won’t like.
I genuinely do not think you are trying to harm this girl. All the same, I wish you would reconsider your motivations. Indeed, at 12 it sets a bad precedent for this girl. Next time it may not be you or another well-intentioned do-gooder. Maybe its someone else’s Mom or Dad, or older brother and the motivation is their type of “enlightenment”.
If these kids can’t find anything to discuss among themselves besides religion and beliefs, I think it behooves you all the more to let them have a party with some other focus. Let them be kids together.
I did not say that at all. I suggested that you facilitate the party like any other parent would without taking time to specifically make sure this particular girl is aware of your philosophies, life views, book collection, etc…
Which is the opportunity you were preparing and planning for in your OP. You are the one excited for the opportunity to convert someone away from their way to yours.
I doubt that left to their own devices a bunch of twelve year olds are likely to focus on such matter. Again however, if they do, I suggest you try to offer another direction for the party.
I reeeeeally don’t think that’s what Dangerosa is doing. I think she’s sort of amused that her friend’s kid will, just by being over at their household for the night, be exposed to a worldview that’s different in very much the same way that her child is exposed to a worldview that’s different when she goes to church social events with her friend, and is even more amused that her child’s friend is more likely to be welcoming of such a “conversion” than her own child.
And yeah, I might have used the word “corrupted” to describe this, totally tongue-in-cheek, the way I am now convinced Dangerosa used it in her OP.
ETA: And Dangerosa need not plan anything for this to be the case. When people come to visit us, it’s fairly obvious immediately that we place a high priority on books and science, for example. I’m liable to try to teach your kid some science without thinking about it if your kid comes to visit me.
The entire premise of the OP is how great it will be to have the girl in her house with the opportunity to spread her own message to her. Its creepy. That is absolutely not normal. You are also missing the title of the thread. The motivation is to repay their “attempted conversion”. Which I am not really sold on anyways.
As a parent, when your child is leaving the house without you here is some standard information you should have: Where are you going?, With who?, When will you be back? If you do not know the honest answer to those questions, you are slacking off as a parent.
Also, whats all this conversion attempt? Did they go to some church function where there were a couple of “Praise Jesus”!! tossed around? Or did this girls family surround her daughter and start chanting “Come to our side…Come to Jeeeesssssuuuussss!!” Either way, the acceptable response is “Keep your bs away from my kid” Not I will try to offend them through their daughter since I feel disrespected.
Reread the OP, thats what this whole thing is about. All this talk about trying to help some poor, poor kid with strict parents ? Bull-oney. The girl goes to public school, socializes with different kids, there is NO mention of anything unreasonable on her parents part. Only Dangerosa’ personal feelings of being in the right, and wanting the opportunity to “get someone”.
When I was 12 or so, I was pretty involved in a reading club at my public library. The librarian in charge of it often suggested books for me to read. I remember one book dealt with AIDS in the gay community, specifically with older teenage and young adult males. It was not a book that I think my parents would have really wanted me reading at that age. Now my parents are not evangelical but I know they would have liked to been told exactly what sort of reading materials people were suggesting I read but if someone suggested that Maggie was undermining their authority or anything like that, they would have laughed in their face. Y’all need to chill.
