how else can you measure sexuality?
Sorry, not everyone is willing to accept everything being some liberal arts school gender studies. The meaning of gender and sexuality included. Some things are indeed concrete.
Oh goody, this thread is in the pit where it always belonged.
You know, if you killed yourself, you’ll never again have to interact with anyone you find distasteful. Just a thought…
Or, you could man up and realize that you aren’t a special little snowflake, and that world doesn’t cater to your sensibilities (I thought people like you were good at that). You just might find people in the world who aren’t like you, and you may even have to treat them as human. Yes, even at work. But if one of those people that keep you up at night invites you out to socialize, or join their wicked club, you can still be the smug prick you are and instead go home alone to your miserable existence. Yes, even if they have the same shitty desk clerk job that you do.
I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that, if you were alive before 1960, you were still in the phase where your family thought it was okay that you still were shitting and pissing yourself. Because you obviously weren’t paying attention to America before 1960…here’s a hint: Shows like “Leave it to Beaver” and “Ozzie and Harriet”, and the pictures Rockwell painted, weren’t real. Television, art…those are things called fiction. You aspire to a time that never was.
And DerekMichaels00: What are you, 12? I sincerely have a hard time believing that you are a day over 20. In fact, I bet you are still wearing your High School class ring to the Freshmen psych class where you first heard about gay penis studies.
This entire thread is predicated on your frustration with not dating women you deem attractive and your trifling chances of getting laid the first night you meet a woman. You’ve painted a completely unflattering picture of yourself, and if it truly reflects your own perceptions, then I have little doubt that nothing here will change your mind. You need to completely change your life before you have any chance of getting your head out of your ass and growing up into a real adult.
But you do have a point about Playboy, though. I mean, if that magazine ever started showing pictures of women who have had surgery to enhance their perceived femininity, there’d be some hell…to…pay, starting with Mr. Hefner himself. I can assure you of that.
I am a white hetboy…and would find it appalling. (But, then, I’m an atheist…) Seriously, I’d hate it, because every day I would have to witness such gross inequality. I hate the inequality that exists today; I’d just puke to have to live in an era before the Civil Rights Act and the advances of women’s liberation.
Just ask? Show a series of pictures or video-clips and ask? “On a scale of 1 to 10, does this turn you on?” There are going to be lots of times when the heart and head know what the penis doesn’t.
Also…there is a huge risk of false reaction. If you take a totally hetero dude, and show him porn of two men in avid 69, it is entirely likely that the penis will react – nudity! sucking! flesh! – even as the witness’s higher emotional associations are negative.
Studies have shown this to be true of (simulated) rape videos. The witness is appalled, horrified, outraged, disgusted…but he might still experience involuntary sexual arousal. You can’t reduce the entirety of the human sexual experience to just what Simon the Stiffy thinks.
I find willful ignorance both fascinating and deeply sad.
You are wrong. Very very wrong. But you refuse to accept even the possibility that you might be wrong.
I’m sorry. It must be so frightening to be you.
Hands up pal! Where we can see 'em!
OK, so you don’t want to be expected to fuck anyone you’re not attracted to.
Nor should anyone. Not just straight guys.
*(Bolding mine. Italics yours.)
Aha! You’re afraid of the “trap”. Don’t wanna waste that game. (Presumably that’s the only “sport” you’re worried about.)
Also, apparently, you want to be able to tell people they’re repulsive in public?
There’s certainly something disgusting here.
This exactly.
**Derek, **you and I are part of the lucky majority. We got it easy with the whole gender identity/sexual orientation thing.
Biological heterosexual males, as a group, have never had to suffer any real discrimination, and likely never will.
The fact that things are finaly improving for folks who have not had it so lucky is something to be celebrated.
Quit yer griping.
Yo, Not Carlson? I’d totally date you. It’s patently clear, from this single post, that you are infinitely more attractive than our mutual friend.
Interestingly enough, it has nothing at all to do with your appearance or height. Funny how that works, innit?
umm I’m a 5’1’’ male. People take extremely short men less seriously, fewer people wanna be seen with and be friends with them in middle and high school, even fewer girls want to give them what other guys get, as in sex/love, and you’re assumed to be unathletic, which is a trait that makes men popular both in school and in dating (ever notice the Match.com girls putting “I want an athletic guy?”).
Short mens’ disadvantage his been documented:
https://www.vice.com/read/it-sucks-to-be-a-short-guy-511
But myself and others like me aren’t trying to have society overall change the meaning of tall (as some are with gender), we’re not demanding “safe-spaces,” “trigger warnings,” etc. etc. But its still hard to call what short men experience anything other than discrimination.
This is true. It sucks, and you’re absolutely right: it’s not fair. I’m sorry you have to deal with that discrimination, and if I had a magic want to make it go away I would wave it in an instant. It’s stupid and it’s awful and it should not happen.
And still…
Are you seriously using that as an excuse for being a piece of shit about transgender men and women?
because what God gave me that I didn’t chose which led to discrimination, and I don’t like, my height, I can’t escape or change. People who are not white, which God gave them, which also leads to discrimination, they can’t change (or easily hide). But these people actually deal with it.
Why should people born male or female, two normal things that do not lead to unique discrimination (I know sexism exists but that’s not the same as racism/height is), be able to change and get accepted with non-whites and short men can’t? Hard not to feel like they act like spoiled brats.
Actually, it’s pretty easy not to feel that way. I do it all the time.
But I get that it’s scary. What would happen if you chose not to make those assumptions? What would it be like if you decided, just for a moment, not to assume “they” are all spoiled brats?
The theme song of this thread is lola.
To the OP, I’m about 99.99% certain you’ll never be in a position where a transsexual person finds you attractive enough on any level, including blowing your mind, to have sex with you. That’s probably true for heterosexual women as well if you don’t get over yourself. Jus’ sayin’
My bolding.
Are you seriously arguing that height discrimination is more egregious than sexism? You are a twit who can’t pull his head out of his ass long enough to notice that there are other people in the world. It may shock you to learn this but the reason you are not getting all the sex you want has nothing to do with your height. It’s because you’re a self-centered idiot who believes women should be honored by the opportunity to be graced by your penis, simply because you are a man and they have a vagina. It takes more than having a penis to be allowed to use it with others. You shouldn’t expect to get much use out of yours.
You may be underestimating the impact of hormones. In particular, a lot of transmen on hormones pass easily, whether or not they’ve had surgery.
I don’t! Have you talked to many women who lived through those days? My mother says, “I have no idea why people call it the good old days, there has never been a better time than now, and things just keep getting better.” Maybe there have been other times when things were pretty good. But in the 50s middle-class women were stuck basically being trophy wives. They didn’t have the economic value women had as farmers, or as hunter-gatherers, for that matter. They were bored and frustrated and everyone told them how lucky they were to be treated as sub-adult dependents. And God help them if their husbands got bored and discarded them.
Meanwhile, racial minorities had it even worse, and homosexuals killed themselves in nearly the numbers that transpeople do today.
Naw, I’ll take today over back then.
I’m not moving a goalpost. I never said anything about XY. That was DerekMichaels00.
That’s physiologically impossible. The SRY gene is necessary for male sex determination. Without it, I wouldn’t be phenotypically male. But regardless, apparently, in your hypothetical, I’m phenotypically male, so no.
So typical of leftists. They describe their views as “nuanced” and “sophisticated,” and conservatives’ as “simplistic” and “black-and-white.” Yet apparently, one is either a liberal globalist or a Nazi. Those are the only two possibilities the modern liberal mind can conceive of. Talk about black and white.
Well, in such a society, you could marry a guy with a good job and be a housewife, which would be much better than working. Who in their right mind would want to work?
I’m positing a society in which the 1965 immigration act never happened, so America remained a basically white country, with a presumptive Christian identity at least in public life.
That was my point. Moriarty said that no one is suggesting that I become affiliated with transsexuals. But in fact the government can bully me into becoming affiliated with all sorts of people.
Only if they’ve had surgery and hormones.
No, as I said above, I did not say anything about XX vs. XY.
People on this board always assume that when I describe the views of mainstream social conservatives, I’m saying that I hold those views, even though I used the word “they,” specifically phrasing my description as though I’m not one of them. I’m not too concerned about pervs faking trans-ness for cover, and I’m not particularly interested in these bathroom laws. Like I said above, I regard them as a somewhat misguided, pointless, last-ditch rear-guard effort when the ship has already sailed.
But we did have a society which was 90% white, where homosexuality was in the closet, where illegitimacy was unacceptable, where men presumptively held more power and authority than women, and where society was publicly deferential to Christianity.
I refuse to surrender to this cultural-left attitude that the past was evil, that there was nothing good about traditional America or traditional Western Civilization, that it should be impossible to have any kind of positive connection with our past. My grandmothers were not miserable victims of horrific oppression. They lived decent, contented lives.
Yeah, that says enough. :rolleyes:
I do get the feeling that Derek sees the world in terms of what he does and doesn’t want to fuck.
And this OP is a manifestation of his fear that he could somehow be tricked into fucking someone he’s not attracted to.
Nay, his fear of being beguiled into attraction to a transgender woman.
(Also: Tall and scruffy with long, doelike eyelashes, if you’re curious.)
His whole world could come crashing down.
Then he would look up from the rubble and see the sun shining brightly, hear the song of a bird ring out sweet and pure, and with a new perspective and hope in his heart, he would begin to build a better world.
You know we can see the marks on the field when you move the goalposts?
I get the frustration of not being considered the hottest fish in the dating pool, but transgender people are not making life harder for you.
Again, you’re seeing things in terms of sexual preference and attraction, when for transgender people it’s a matter of identity. It’s about who they are!
You’re a bigotted douchebag. Nice to know. Don’t you have robes that need ironing?
No one’s saying the past was evil, but it wasn’t this grand eutopia you seem to think it was, either.
My great-grandmother lost two sons when they were children to diseases that are easily preventable today. One died when he was three of whooping cough, the other died when he was seven of tetanus, after stepping on a rusty nail. She had several miscarriages and at least one stillborn. My dad told me about a kid in his neighborhood who had suffered from polio.
I live in Pittsburgh. Back in those days, we were known as “Hell with the Lid Off”. You wanna know why? Because the air was so black from the smoke coming from all the mills, the street lamps were on 24/7. People had to bring extra clothes with them if they came down town to work – you’d get there and be covered in soot.
Call me crazy, but I like clean air and modern medicine.
(Oh, and if you’re trying to escape trans people, you’d have to go back a lot farther than the 1950s. The first sex-change operation was performed in 1931.)
In terms of public accommodation, hiring, business dealings, etc…yes. Very much true. And also good.
Do you really want to throw away all civil rights legislation, and allow shopkeepers to exclude black customers? That isn’t very appealing to most of us, especially those who know the history of the Jim Crow south.
The government also bullies you into driving on the right and coming to a complete stop at a stop sign.
Then there’s no point in discussing this issue with you, as you are in denial. And also an idiot. I cited five different papers talking about gender identity, two of which explicitly spoke about physiological causes for gender identity, and your response to that was:
To completely miss the point. Hey asshole, gender and sex are different. They’re two distinct characteristics. Things aren’t as simple as your retrograde brain thinks they are!
Oh no! A pair of loving parents who also happen to be of the same sex! THE HORROR! That’s clearly and obviously worse than being an orphan! Or being raised by a single parent! Or being raised by estranged or abusive parents!
The only “miserable existence” here is yours, fucko. Study after study after study bears out that children raised by LGBT couples are, by almost every objective or subjective measure, just as well off as the children raised by straight couples. The only place where they lag is that they are slightly more likely to be bullied. By fuckwits like you. This is easily remedied by essentially cutting fuckwits like you out of polite society and making it clear that it’s not okay to be a bully.
Some women who like being financially independent and their own women? What, you think feminism was foisted upon the women who demanded equal representation in the workforce and equal pay? Dude, how many ways do you insist on being wrong?
Oh. You’re also a racist. Congratulations! You’ve basically completed the full range of “terrible person” - anti-woman, anti-LGBT, and also a racist. Now I know not to leave any kittens where you might kick them. Douchebag.
Yeah. Like black people.
And you know what the result was? A whole lot of really unhappy, marginalized people who were forced to hide who they were, or who couldn’t hide who they were and who suffered as a result. The society of the 50s was great for exactly one group of people: well-off Christian cisgendered heterosexual white men. Compared to now, it sucked for women, non-white people, non-Christians, and the entire LGBT spectrum. I’ll gladly take the trade-off of those people getting voices in society vs. bigoted fuckwits like you being uncomfortable about it. In my eyes? That’s a feature, not a bug.