My jumpsuit is black on the right side.
19 freaking minutes.
Per my earlier note about not getting personal…warning issued.
If that’s your fear perhaps a simple analogy will help.
When the Supreme Court ruled that bans on interracial marriage are unconstitutional they basically said “It’s fine for a black person and a white person to get married”. If those two folks want to get married, they can’t be denied that right due to skin color.
This in no way led to laws, rules, societal pressure or The Evil Media telling white people that they HAVE to marry (or date) black people.
In the same way, allowing UnaPersson to take a crap in the bathroom stall next to my sister does not mean that you have to ask Caitlyn Jenner out on a date if you happen to be free next Saturday night.
You are currently and will remain free in the future to date only those women that meet your personal criteria for attractiveness, whatever those criteria happen to be. Nobody is going to require you to do otherwise.
Well-played.
The fact of it is that we in the Western world are now in the age of you are what you feel you are and we must simply adjust to it (it’s harder for those of us who are of an older generation). Of course, large parts of the world (Russia, China, many Muslim countries) are unlikely to follow the West down these particular paths, at least not now and maybe never. So, decadent individualism or the wave of the future? I guess only time will tell.
I posted from the first page and didn’t see that warning. But ok, I understand.
Speaking as a 50+ American, I personally feel that the current trend in favor of minding one’s own business about other people’s personal lives is much more in line with the rather conservative social mores I was taught as a child. (Of course, that had something to do with the influence of my grandmother who was born in 1898, so you may be thinking of a younger older generation than I am.)
Somebody has an unusual appearance for a person of their gender? “That’s none of your business, dear.”
Someone lives with a friend of the same sex instead of being married to a person of the opposite sex? “A lady doesn’t pry into other people’s personal lives.”
Some accidental contretemps exposed something about an acquaintance’s background, or anatomy, that seemed surprising? “It’s vulgar to gossip, especially about things that the person in question did not choose to have talked about.”
Some shocking revelation comes out in the media about some celebrity figure? All of the above, plus extra demerits for paying attention to “mere scandal and rumor that don’t belong in the news”.
I’m all in favor of modern general openness and honesty about the realities of human diversity and medical knowledge, but sometimes I think Grandma had a point about there being way too much unseemly inquisitiveness these days into private matters that are none of one’s business. Dear.
In my experience, as far as it goes, this issue is the only thing that anti-transgender discrimination is ever really about.
Straight cisgender guys, AFAICT, are not genuinely afraid that they’re going to be forced or expected to date transgender women. What they are afraid of, for reasons that remain completely mysterious to me, is that they might at some point feel or express attraction to a transgender woman without knowing that she’s transgender.
Which, of course, has probably already happened to every straight man in the modern world at least once, given that straight men tend to notice hot-looking women, and perhaps one in a thousand women is transgender and a lot of those transgender women are hot-looking. But as long as the possibility of a hot-looking woman being transgender was never socially acknowledged, straight men never had to confront that situation consciously.
Heck, I’m a cisguy who is still somewhat impressed by RuPaul.
Well, RuPaul when he doesn’t go all-out, which I gather somewhat defeats the purpose of RuPaul. Relatively conservative RuPaul is my personal preference. Looking at google images of him, I can’t help but notice how many of them have been so heavily photoshopped that he looks almost cartoonish, indeed as cartoonish as any similarly-'shopped female model.
Just saying.
I’m pretty sure RuPaul is not transgender.
Indeed, but Caroline “Tula” Cossey is likely less well known, I think RuPaul is funny, and I’m not sure the OP cares either way. I was in any case giving an example, myself, of a cisguy who found someone other that a ciswoman attractive, at least at first glance, and yet I did not subsequently feel my own identity threatened or even affected.
I feel entirely comfortable, and comfortably heterosexual, with saying that Janet Mock is extremely beautiful.
This has been addressed by others, but bears repeating - there are people whose body has looked extremely feminine from birth who are XY, and people who have been male-bodied from birth who are XX. The key is not the Y chromosome, it’s the SRY gene. If it’s not working, or if it winds up on the wrong chromosome, you get unexpected results.
No one knows how many of these people exist because they’re generally only found when they go to a doctor to inquire why they seem unable to either conceive or sire a child. If they never bother to go to a doctor no one ever knows.
So far, there has been some indication that there is, in fact, a brain structure that is different in transgender people compared to cisgender people. Unfortunately, this can only be observed at autopsy which complicated diagnosis in living people. Complicates it, but does not rule it out - Alzheimer’s can be definitively diagnosed only with an autopsy yet we diagnosis living people with it routinely.
So, it’s not yet proven absolutely but there is some small evidence that transgender people are indeed wired differently.
Um… are you saying is it OK for a person being transgender to be a turn-off for you? Sure. You aren’t required to date or have sex with anyone, and it’s an area where you’re allowed to be as picky or not as you please. You aren’t being asked to date anyone of a specific race or gender or whatever. Pretty much the only restrictions are that anyone you do have sex with must be old enough to consent and willingly consenting.
I would adamantly defend your right to NOT date or have sex with someone transgender if you do not care for that, just as I would defend your right as a heterosexual man to NOT date or have sex with other men.
I do ask that you treat others, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, or other trait, with fairness and dignity in public and social interactions.
As noted, there actually may be an observable difference. Unfortunately, we haven’t found one that can be observed prior to death.
Una’s thread, which was previously referenced, has links to the scientific research concerning brain structure differences between transgender and cisgender people.
RuPaul is a drag queen, self-identified “tranny” in the sense of transvestite, and by some lights is as trans(gender)phobic as anyone.
Janet Mock is indeed gorgeous and damn smart to boot. Somehow I don’t think she needs to worry about being some guy’s lower standard.:rolleyes:
I’m relatively right wing but I don’t think this is a liberal or conservative type issue. I think this is a look at the evidence issue and use a bit of reasoning. XX and XY are good for lumping people into the male and female grouping for the most part, but how the mind perceives the body differently from what should be expected seems to be a real phenomenon.
Now the question becomes what sort of non-standard thinking is considered acceptable and what is considered criminal or a disorder? On the subject of transgenderism I’m not seeing the harm to society to let these folks be.
you can run an actual scientific experiment in which a person’s words per minute are counted writing with the left and right hand and do it with other tasks, to control for things like playing guitar (which is something lefties often learn to do righty, but that’s an exception).
With sexuality (as in which sex arouses who), you could give someone truth serum, have a male and a female lap dance and play with the subject, and see if the subject gets aroused.
Do you recognize that sexuality and gender identity are different? That there are transmen who prefer men, and transwomen who prefer women? You’ve consistently ignored these questions.
Yes, really, what is this thing about being worried that it will become required that we embrace a sort of reverse gender normative in our own lives? It’s like the concern that churches will be required to bless gay weddings or else lose their nonprofit status. All that is being asked is that those who have a certain gender identity, be allowed to be and live freely as such instead of being marginalized and branded as high-risk misfits or perpetrators of a scam.
As to being worried that you’ll be called nasty names just because you consider transgender a turn-off in dating, well, how about for starters you don’t go around saying “they are not real women/men”. *That *is going to be called out. If you don’t do that, then you are vastly more likely to get a pass on “sorry, XY = deal-breaker for dating me”.
(emphasis added by me)
And you see, this is how progress is made. People get over themselves, look at the evidence, accept that the “standard norm” is not 100% perfect for 100% of cases and ask themselves, is there actual harm in accepting those that don’t fall into the cookie cutter norm? And then you figure, if no harm to society + a number of people are able to lead better lives = then let them be
Its only a recent invention of the far-left that gender and sex are different. Just two decades ago, mainstream use of gender only existed to avoid using the word “sex” and making kiddies giggle.
Don’t you ever liken short height, which is common among both sexes, relatively, to having milk breasts and a vagina/uterus, which ONLY females have (except hermaphrodites). Point of mentioning my height is that like being born male or female, god gave me it. I don’t go around saying I’m actually a tall guy in a short guy’s body, blah blah.
Sexuality, not sex – as in sexual preference. Do you recognize that sexual preference and gender identity are entirely different? That some transwomen prefer women, and some transmen prefer men?