See what I mean **Shagnasty **?
I had so many encounters with the sorry citation methods from the pitees that I was counting on your defenses to be also pitiful.
I don’t have any preconceived conclusions. Human genetic origins are just a hobby of mine but it is rapidly developing field. I can give you some books to read on it if you are interested. It certainly flies in the face of most of what people have been trained to believe but it is very scientific and takes great care to stay that way. I found out quickly when I was in a PhD program of my own that I would rather read about what other people are doing in the field rather than bust my own ass to do it myself. That is what I do to this day and certainly not superficially.
My main point is that the science has quickly outstripped 1960’s academic theology in which all people are born equal and every individual is a tabula rasa (blank slate) at birth. There are population and individual differences and shouldn’t be taboo to point those out. We have been spinning our wheels for at least 150 years on this problem now and nothing has fixed it. Denying the issue will never make it better.
Yes, this exists, and it shouldn’t be taboo. But there is no evidence that such differences (between populations) include different genetic tendencies to intelligence. No evidence. None. All CP has is evidence that the gap exists.
In 2006, of 3,315 PhDs in Physical Sciences, 73 were awarded to black US citizens.
Of 1,694 PhDs in Engineering, 89 were awarded to black US citizens.
Wait, are you saying that disparate outcomes exist? No way! I’m gobsmacked!
Funny that you mention the 60’s, many of the cites from the pitees also come from there, we are not dealing with people that follow “the march of science” here.
And here you are very wrong, you see I come to this issue from a background in history, and what I found out in many discussions is that actually it is the idea that we are so different what took a dive and it is not much on the mainstream specially thanks to to the discoveries in genetics. What it is clear is that many times people like you only demonstrate a gross ignorance on what it is the current consensus in academia.
And to be a real pedant, 
that was not the point the cite you were replying was dealing with.
Somehow I don’t think you are comprehending what we are saying (and that is certainly the case with you to me). I have no idea what you are complaining about when it comes to human migrations and their influence on history. Of course, we all are all one species in that we can interbreed but the study of human origins is all about different groups meeting and interbreeding including homo sapiens and Neanderthals in Europe plus possibly other now extinct human populations interbreeding in Asia (not proven yet). That is what prehistory is all about
Isolated and fairly genetically distinct migration group(s) out of Africa populated the rest of the world while other distinct groups in Africa never left. It wasn’t until the last few hundred years that those human groups were reunited in sub-Saharan Africa through widespread travel after tens if not one hundred thousand years or more of population isolation.
BTW:I am not impressed with a history background unless you can use it to shed light on this topic and you certainly didn’t do it in this post. It isn’t a hard science and tends to lag other discipline by decades.
Not what I’m dealing with, do not avoid the current subject, who told you that misleading information about Spencer Wells?
What I do comprehend it is that clearly you do not know what are the good sources, and the well of information that you are using are truly inadequate, that has been shown so far. If by any chance you are indeed not just asking questions what I would like to see is just an understanding that people like Chief Pedant are not people that deserve to be defended.
Nobody told me any misleading information about Spencer Wells. I have his books and journal articles and watched a documentary on his work last week. He is the best human origins scientist ever and certainly not racist but somehow I think his work doesn’t quite fit into the academic orthodoxy that has been built up over decades.
I won’t give up my defense of Chief Pedant and and it is completely unsolicited. I am following what he is saying as well as what some of his detractors are saying but, at worst, I don’t think they have any better case than he does. The people that are attacking him are just using a variation of the ‘racist’ grenade plus endless calls for cites beyond what is scientifically possible now and ignoring known evidence.
I don’t think that is acceptable in an honest debate no matter how emotional the subject becomes. There is endless evidence that a discrepancy among racial or population groups exists in the U.S. today including all standardized tests. I don’t think it is productive to fight understanding why those exist (or deny that they do at all) or the ways of remedying them even if they aren’t in line with any current political agenda.
So you knew better and yet you told us that he would be misrepresented or to not support the position of people like the OP. Do tell…
And thanks for also playing the strawman fallacy, we are not saying that there is no discrepancy, only that the evidence is not with the conclusions or solutions that come from those conclusions from people like Chief Pedant, if you do not want to get up with fleas do not lie with people like Chief Pedant.
Here I have to note that even I’m on the record in previous discussions noticing that there is a problem, it is just that history does show that for the race realists science stopped supporting their best assumptions on genetics being the main driver of the gaps several decades ago.
To improve the education of black students and encourage desegregation, a federal judge invited the Kansas City, Missouri, School District to come up with a cost-is-no-object educational plan and ordered local and state taxpayers to find the money to pay for it.
Kansas City spent as much as $11,700 per pupil–more money per pupil, on a cost of living adjusted basis, than any other of the 280 largest districts in the country. The money bought higher teachers’ salaries, 15 new schools, and such amenities as an Olympic-sized swimming pool with an underwater viewing room, television and animation studios, a robotics lab, a 25-acre wildlife sanctuary, a zoo, a model United Nations with simultaneous translation capability, and field trips to Mexico and Senegal. The student-teacher ratio was 12 or 13 to 1, the lowest of any major school district in the country.
The results were dismal. Test scores did not rise; the black-white gap did not diminish; and there was less, not greater, integration.
The Kansas City experiment suggests that, indeed, educational problems can’t be solved by throwing money at them, that the structural problems of our current educational system are far more important than a lack of material resources, and that the focus on desegregation diverted attention from the real problem, low achievement.
This is simply wrong. Every sentence is contrary to fact.
While it does appear that most of the non-Africans are descended from a small group that left Africa maybe 60k years ago, some of that same group stayed in Africa. And there has been gene flow in and out of Africa for thousands of years. Do you really not know that sub-Saharan Blacks were known in Classical Rome or that Arab and other Semitic peoples (including Jews) were trading and even living in East Africa long before the European Age of Discovery? That Arab slave traders also operated in Africa long before that period?
You claim to be a student of history and human migrations, but you seem to know very little about that subject.
Chief Pendant is not a racist or racialist. He knows that the classical racial breakdowns are invalid just like I do and that is where people tend to get lost because the standard arguments against the idea don’t understand the more recent science. The strawman argument applies to yours. He was talking about population differences and it is perfectly possible that American blacks who tended to come from a certain part of West Africa through slavery tend to have some genetic commonalities. The genetic science hasn’t quite caught up to identifying specific genes that determine specific traits for that yet but there is no reason to dismiss the idea offhand. That applies to almost all complex traits for everyone regardless of their origins. Other African groups tend to be mostly unrelated to other Africans as much as any people on the planet are and we are perfectly aware that skin color alone has little bearing on overall traits but the idea becomes much more scientific and interesting once it is broken down more.
What he is saying is perfectly scientifically plausible even if it isn’t mapped out to the last gene. It is time to stop using the racist alarm whenever someone suggests that there maybe a difference between any two populations. We already have great real-world and experimental evidence that there are differences. The nurture side of the argument has failed to close the gap so far. It is time to look at other explanations.
“Because he says so”, is not a good argument, do not teach grandma to suck eggs, I already encountered so many times to conclude that he is a bad cherry picker with an agenda. That he is very likely a racist is because of what he is focusing on (the solutions he implies are what unmasks him) has appeared in many previous discussions with him.
Nope, you are only demonstrating that you are dense, if that was only what Chief Pedant was doing there would not be much of a problem, you are only continuing to ignore how unreliable he is with the sources, just as you show it, the blind can not lead the blind.
By the way, you are getting close to making a bingo.
The point here is what I warned you before, you are making your bed with him and so it could be that just maybe you are not like him, but your inability to identify bad sources or horrible spin from good sources just demonstrates that you also have a problem. I do drop any sources that I find misrepresenting evidence, you should do the same or suffer the disdain of many others, and when conservatives I respect like John Mace notices how shallow you are on this subject, well there is not much left to be said.
Of course I know about those groups. You are making the same mistake as everyone else by lumping them all into one. There were and are isolated African population groups to this day including the San Bushmen. What has that have to do with blacks in America today? Almost nothing in that case except to highlight that there can be population differences among modern day humans. You have to follow the recent developments on human origins to follow the full migration paths and genetic branching to get the full story and it is fairly complicated and still growing.
One real problem for many blacks in the USA is the mismatch between their vernacular English and the English of the learned class. “Ebonic” idioms can confuse communication with teachers speaking in standard English.
Successful blacks overlap significantly with those that make a point of speaking very good English.
It’s language and dialect, friend, not genes. You don’t notice how many honkies have the same problem, or you think they’re “stupid inbred hillbillies.” But some white people have difficulties for similar reasons.
Well, then, it’s far, far too soon, isn’t it, to conclude that that field of science offers any evidence of heredity differentials in intellectual capacity between such population-groups?
Well, it may be a factor foolsguinea, but I would like to see the evidence the author used, What I have seen is that the subject is very complex, and people like Chief Pedant are coming from the mold of finding simpler solutions, but like H. L. Mencke said, “For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.”
In one of the links from the OP it is clear that in the end Chief Pedant and others crackpots just reach for the conspiracy card, he really does think that geneticists and other scientists involved in the subject are conspiring into not investigating the genetic differences involved in intelligence, forgetting all the previous research that found that our differences were not as big as many racialists thought they were, he is no different than the conspiracy minded climate change deniers.
And how well does Mandarin, Cantonese, or Hindi match English? Yet first and second generation immigrants from China and India are over represented in college.
I find it bizarre that a kid from China who speaks a different language, eats different food, has a different religion, and grew up in a different political and economic system can overcome these cultural hurdles while a kid born in the United States can’t.