So, I ordered a box of protein powder from what appears to be a less-than-reputable outfit in Philadelphia. Box arrives damaged, powder pouring out all over. I contact the company via email & phone. The guy from the company calls me and basically tells me to shove it - contact the company or UPS, don’t bother him. He was very rude.
I posted this information on a public forum with a warning to others not to buy from this particular outfit.
Next thing I know I get an email from the guy threatening to sue me for “harassment, malicious libel and/or slander, defamation and tortuous interference” - can he really do this?
I replied that as far as I knew, free speech is still a right in this country. But I offered to ship the box back to him and dispute the charge with my CC company.
Well, you can sue for anything you want, from what I understand. The question is whether he would win or not. Not that he couldn’t win, but if it were easy to win, there’d be no Wal-Mart Sucks pages. (IANAL)
Im not a lawyer so I just checked with my mother who is a practicing trial lawyer in Washington DC, Maryland and Virginia. (She has handled some liable cases.)
Here is here response. Heavily paraphrased. (She is a lawyer the email was like 3 pages long.)
Liable suits require that the victim [The seller of the product in this case] suffers actual damages due directly to your libel. (i.e. loss of revenue, customers or some definable aspect of his professional reputation.)
The liable [in this case your internet post] must contain non-factual information the intent of which was to clearly defame the victim.
The defendant [you] must have knowledge that the libel was not factual in some aspect. This would extend to a reasonable expectation that the knowledge of the validity of the statement should have been known to you. (So you cant claim I did not realize that what I said was not factual)
Basically from what she said you need to be sure you can back up in court every assertion you made in your post against him.
And yes he can sue. Anyone can sue for anything in the US. Weather a court will hear the case depends on the strength of his case as presented to the court system. Weather or not he wins the case is really up to the judge/arbitrator or jury. Incidentally my mom did say if you’re likely, in your state, to be taking this case before a jury, dont. Juries are notoriously unpredictable.
Bottom line make sure this is a battle you’re prepared to fight and make sure its really worth it before going into the fray.
Assuming your post did not make false statements, this guy would appear not to have much basis for a lawsuit. It’s unlikely he will be able to show that you hurt his business.
I hope you report him to every agency with jurisdiction: Dept of Consumer Affairs, BBB and the like. “Kill 'im with your bible, and raise the rent!”
Eventually this goon will understand that it takes less money and effort to keep a customer happy, than go find another one; that one unhappy client tells a dozen people where a happy one tells a few.
The more people stand up to this kind of shoddy business, the sooner it stops.
[standard IANAL disclaimer]
It sounds like your comments/complaints were not about the product itself but about the shipping company and the customer service at the place that sells the protein powder. The product itself, if that is the case, has not been libelled, and you are most certainly free to share your true and verifiable stories that the shipping company they use is negligent and their customer service was rude and unhelpful.
While as said several times already he can certainly sue you for it (hell, I could probably sue you for this thread and then sue SDMB for damage done to my eyesight while reading the message boards and Tim Berners-Lee for inventing the Internet in the first place) it doesn’t mean said case has merit. Besides this, the bad press could cost him one helluva lot more than anything he could reasonably hope to recover and he should be made aware of this.
PS- I personally wouldn’t fault the company for the damage done by the shippers, but they should have been more helpful in replacing the item and then they should take it up with the shippers. If this was an isolated incident then it’d behoove them to replace it to keep a customer satisfied and if it wasn’t then it’d behoove them to either package it better or find better fulfilment company/shippers.
IA still NAL but my understanding is that any email
to which you are the recipient is your legal property to do with as you please so long as it does not contain privileged or obviously confidential information (personal contact info, etc.). For the latter there are legality issues, but the text would certainly come under fair use since it’s not even personal but relevant to the issue posted about.
It seems to me that it is on the company to pack their products well enough to survive the trip to wherever they are going. Although the shipping company shouldn’t be playing basketball with your parcels, it happens – a lot. Proper packaging, with sufficient packing material, is a good hedge against the product getting damaged in transit. You didn’t mention how the product was packaged, so I can’t comment on it, but if it was damaged to the point where it was leaking powder all over the place, it’s probably safe to assume that the packaging was poor.
As to the suit – IANAL either, but you’re perfectly safe telling him to get stuffed. As long as you aren’t knowingly spreading lies for the purpose of discrediting him and his business then anything (truthful) that you say about him and his business is protected speech. He can still sue you, and you will have to respond to that suit or lose by default (if he pursues it that far, and assuming the courts will even hear it) but as long as you can back up your claims, you’re golden. And possibly out some fees. (I don’t know how it is in the US, but in Canada there are at least some paperwork fees you have to cough up.)
I have now had several more email exchanges with this guy. He’s apparently quite a psycho and claims that I libelled him, my wife libelled him, and that I didn’t give him a chance to talk when he called my home the other day so that he could explain the procedure for filing a claim with UPS. He also called at night and left a voicemail calling me stupid among other things.
I have found records on the Internet of him following this same procedure against others who have made complaints about his business practices and threatening lawsuits. I’m totally floored at how one could go from a customer wanting to make a simple purchase of protein powder to a victim of a libel lawsuit - just for voicing my dissatisfaction with the suppliers business practices!
I would like very much to give this person a taste of his own medicine - what’s the best way to find a lawyer (in the Dallas area) who might be interested in pursuing this guy? He has totally ruined my weekend with his email harassment and my stress level has just gone through the roof with this crap.
I’m sure you can find a listing of libel lawyers in your area in the Yellow Pages. I don’t think I’d bother. File a claim with UPS. You don’t need him to help you do that.
If you want to stick it to him, just make sure your ducks are in a row and go for it. It will cost both of you financially. You need to decide if it’s worth it.
I know the kind of rage you’re feeling, but to me, the issue really isn’t worth it. File a report with the BBB or whatever… Schmoke a doobie and let it go.
This is a corporate trend of the last 10-15 years. They are called “slap suits” and the intent is intimidation, and more. If they can’t shut you up, they can make you pay, heavily, through legal fees, for voicing your opinion.
[Moderator Note]I thought the title was too vague, so I changed it from the original “Opinions sought” to the current “Opinions on package damage sought”.{/Moderator Note]
Assuming the product was packaged correctly and left their facility intact, I would agree this is more than likely damage by the shipping company used, but good luck getting them to admit culpability. Granted, the seller could replace it anyway, to keep a customer happy, but since he’s obviously not going to do so (especially after your actions I would think going after whoever delivered it would be your best bet at this point.
That’s the odd thing about this situation. The outer box shows a little damage, (one corner slightly crumpled), but the inner box seems fine. The plastic bag that the powder is in has the hole, but it’s not exactly evident that it was damaged in shipping, which is what caused me to suspect that the merchandise was defective to start with. This company advertise ‘lower than wholesale’ prices and I suspect this may be why. I have also complained to the manufacturer but have heard nothing from them.
I’m sort of caught between a rock & a hard place on this, aren’t I?
No, as I mentioned before (take some pictures of everything you mentioned, outer box, inner box etc…) call your credit card company and dispute it. Worst case scenario, you’ll still have to pay for it.
Let the BBB know as well.
If he hasn’t actually filed suit yet, then DNFTT. Stop responding to him and I’ll bet he goes away. Tell all your friends not to buy from him, call the BBB etc., then drop it. If he calls you or e-mails you, just don’t answer.
I would think going after whoever delivered it would be your best bet at this point.