Opinions on some W Coast and E Seaboard cities

In My Humble Opinion
1

I’ve lived w/in 150 miles of Chicago all my life. I’m in the very early stages of applying for a job that might involve relocation. The job has positions in every state, and the more you list the greater your chances of being selected. But it is not the type of job that I would be willing to move just anywhere for. So I listed a few areas, and wondered what any of you might be able to say about them. My wife and I are very socially and politically liberal, atheist, and would prefer a more relaxed setting than a really big city.

If we move to a big city, we’d probably want a reasonably painless commute - like my current train ride. I don’t want to sit in a car in traffic for a couple of hours a day.

Other than a few locations in IL and WI, these are the towns/cities I said I’d consider moving to:

W Coast:
Eugene OR
Portland OR
Seattle WA

E Seaboard:
Hartford CT
New Haven CT
Washington DC
Dover DE
Boston MA
Springfield MA
Baltimore MD
Rockville MD
Manchester NH
White Plains NY
Philadelphia PA
Providence RI
Arlington VA
Charlottesville VA
Falls Church VA
Newport News VA
Norfolk VA
Richmond VA

Anyone have any opinions on whether any of these places are nirvana or hell?

2

Boston has lots of good points but they are offset by an equal number of bad points. It is horribly expensive and the driving style in legendary and accurate. Pulic transportation is good in the city itself. You would need to make lots more money to have a comparable lifestyle to where you are now.

Manchester NH is a small city but it is pretty decent overall. It is much cheaper than Boston although Boston isn’t that far away.

Providence, RI had been revitalized in recent years. It still has a moderately gritty feel but it is attractive and they have tried and largely succeeded in making it interesting. It is much cheaper than Boston as well and has more of a big city feel than Manchester, NH.

3

I’ll take a stab at all of the VA cities in one post.

Arlington, Falls Church, and nearly all of the DC suburbs are going to be pretty similar. Traffic is a nightmare and the cost of living compared to other sections of VA is high. Arlington does have Metro acces - I’m not sure about Falls Church. There’s plenty to do in the way of culture, sports, concerts, etc. Politically, NoVA tends to be more liberal than the rest of the state (with exceptions, which we’ll get to). NoVA is steadily creeping southward, so much so that Fredericksburg (about 45 miles from DC) is now considered a suburb more or less.

Charlottesville is home to the University of Virginia. Liberal atmosphere, nice city, in the mountains but with easy access to I-64 for trips to the beach. The quintessential college town. The cost of living is reasonable.

Newport News and Norfolk I’ll include together since they’re both in Hampton Roads. Both have a bit of a blue collar reputation. Newport News is dominated by the shipyard, Norfolk by the Naval Yard. Lots of transient populations because of the military personnel. Traffic can be murder, depending on where you’re going and at what time of day. If possible, you want to live and work on the same side of the tunnels. Trying to get through the Hampton Roads Tunnel at 5:00 on a weekday is no one’s idea of fun. Upside - your’re right on the water. HOT and HUMID weather. Cost of living isn’t as bad as NoVA. Norfolk has some nice neighborhoods that are being gentrfied and young professionals are moving back. A pretty thriving music scene.

Richmond - Halfway between Charlottesville and Norfolk, not only in geography but in lots of other ways as well. Think of it as a big small town. Traffic isn’t too bad, but public transport is lacking. Cultural events, concert series, a AAA baseball team, and you’re as close to skiing and winter sports in teh mountains as you are to the beach. The cost of living is reasonable and there are diverse neighborhoods. I’ve lived here since 1982 (after growing up in NOVA) and enjoy it. Big enough to have be entertaining and lively, not so big as to be overwhelming.

4

Hartford : Dull, dull, dull. Decent, pretty-ish suburbs all around, with Avon and Simsbury being the tonier directions (although this may have changed since I lived around there last.) The city itself has some gritty sections – I think most of the downtown anchor stores have moved out and there’s a fair bit of crime. Don’t think there’s much in the way of mass transit.

New Haven: Well…it’s got Yale and it’s near the shore. A bit more cultural activities than Hartford, I think. Aside from that – suburbs are decent, city itself has some pretty nasty areas. Good pizza. Commuting routes may be congested.

Springfield Mass is economically depressed, but it’s within a 25 mile or so commute of the Pioneer Valley (Amherst and Northampton) which is about as socially and politically liberal as you can get. Very pretty area, once you get north of Holyoke.
Boston, Providence and Manchester are as Shagnasty has said. If you work in Boston and live outside of the city, your commute is going to be long and tedious. There is a commuter rail in several directions. Takes 40 minutes to an hour to get to the North Shore which is expensive, reasonably pretty, and on the ocean.

Manchester NH is within easy driving distance of skiing and hiking and is only an hour or so from Boston. New Hampshire is not particularly known for being politically liberal.
Climate of all of the above would be acceptable to anyone who’s lived in Chicago. Winters can be cold, but recently have been somewhat mild.
Newport News – last time I was there, my predominant impression was an endless vista of strip malls. The city caters (or catered) to the personnel of the naval base. I was not impressed.

5

We recently drove to Maine thru Phil, Boston, NY. Got a good vibe from Boston - really liked the areas west around Concord. Got the feeling it would be very similar to my current living in a burb and taking the train into a big city. Not what we are dying for, but we know we can handle it. And the whole area struck us as a little less Christian and a little more tolerant than our current place.

I know Boston is pricey, but Chicago and where I live ain’t exactly cheap, so I don’t think we’d be too shocked. The job would pay well enough that we could afford any of these locations, tho of course, the $ would support a finer lifestyle in an cheaper area…

Couldn’t stand Manhattan/Staten Island/etc, but seemed more and more tolerable as we moved up the Hudson. Tho I imagine those areas might be mighty pricey.

Drove thru New Haven and Providence, but didn’t stop to get any real impression (other than that CT impressed us as really pretty.) Seemed like other than Boston, NY, and Phil, and Balt., the towns were of much more modest size, such that 10-20 miles outside of town you could have more of a country feel than just a faceless suburb, yet still not worry about a bumper-to-bumper commute.

Looking on google map, it looks like most of these are mid-sized cities, with lots of green space around them. Which appeals to us.

I’ve spent quite a bit of time in and around Baltimore. Another town I’m not thrilled with, but could handle.

Anything weird about any of these states? I hear folks talk about Taxachusetts. Anby goofy local politics or obnoxious local minorities/majorities? Any more or less insular/welcoming to outsiders? Weird weather or interesting geography? For some of these locations I would have some flexibility. For ex., for Springfield MA I could live in CT.

6

Quick ‘n’ dirty, based on limited information in some cases, and others will no doubt take issue. In general AFAIK the west coast cities are all more liberal than the east coast cities. As a westerner, I have a strong preference (almost a prejudice in favor of the Northwest cities.

Eugene OR – Crunchy granola college town, very liberal, not a lot to do other than the usual college scene.

Portland OR – Beautiful, liberal (though not as much as Seattle), smaller than Seattle, rains a lot, gets a reasonable amount of cultural stuff and is between Seattle and LA for the rest.

Seattle WA – Laid back, liberal, lots to do, pretty, nice people, rains a lot, commuting is a bitch. Expensive

Hartford CT – Shithole, bedroom community for NYC, take the train in. Cheap (relatively).

New Haven CT – Not a shithole, bedroom community for NYC, take the train in.

Washington DC – Enormous, lots to do, dirty, crappy commutes. Expensive.

Boston MA – Ditto DC, more history, cold.

Baltimore MD – Shithole that is trying with some success to reform itself; lots of people moving up because it’s still cheaper than DC (though more expensive every day).

White Plains NY – Shithole and COLD

All the Virginia towns are nice, they get more conservative as you more South away from DC. Lots more churches than in New England or the Northwest.

Now people can drop in and tell you how wrong I am. :slight_smile:

7

Oh Dinsdale we’ve gone over this before! Just move to Coastal Connecticut and be done with it. Hartford is like Finagle said…but I live in Coastal Connecticut, eastern part, and I’m 55 minutes from Hartford, easily commutable. But coastal Connecticut doesn’t have the urban sprawl, strip malls, and blah like some of the other towns you mention do. You’ve got the best of both world IMHO. You’ve got the ocean and beaches, or rolling hills and meadowy places to hike, bike, fish, and swim etc…etc… And you are exactly 100 miles from Boston or New York if you want to get out of dodge for a while. :slight_smile: Email me and I’ll even set you up with some cool Neo-Pagan types who have outdoor bonfires and chanting sessions! :slight_smile:

8

You guys are really great. Really giving me a clearer idea of what these places might be like.

It was a really weird exercise, picking what locations to list. I’ve got a sophomore and junior in HS, so I’m not dying to move right away. And a job offer might come within months, in a couple of years, or never. But if I didn’t apply, I might not get another chance for a really long time. And if I get hired, there might be a possibility down the line for lateral transfers.

Right now I have a 1 hr door-to-desk commute via commuter train. I’m not averse to driving, but not in big-city rush hour traffic.

9

I go to college in Providence, so I’ve lived there for 2.5 years and will head back in September . It’s a really nice city. The city’s pretty small, I can’t imagine having a long commute (although I am from LA, so everything’s relative). While downtown seems to be dominated by a giant mall, there’s a lot of other stuff going on. Every weekend during the summer the city holds Waterfire: they set up bonfires in the small river running through the city, play strange music, hire mimes and performers, etc. The whole city seems to come out for it. It’s also very politically liberal.

10

I love Philly, and live here by choice. It’s a manageable size, but has plenty going on in the arts, etc. Too many local colleges to name. Politically liberal. Not necessarily cheap, but it sort of depends on where you want to live. If schools are a factor, the selection will be a bit trickier.

If you’re serious about putting Philly on the list, let me know, and I’ll be happy to tell you more.

11

On your west coast cities (lived in two, a lot of time in the third); Eugene is not as crunchy granola as it used to be. I sort of liked it-- it’s also not as dependent on the college scene. There’s a real community existing there. Seattle is a city, and one of transplants. I’m not sure I’ve met anyone there that was born there (all the people I know from Seattle live somewhere else now) so it has a sort of bland generic corporate quality in my estimation (with a lot of interesting exceptions), while Portland is more genuinely and accidentally quirky. Like, Seattle is freaky in a calculated hip and frequently capitalist big city way, while Portland was always a unwitting nerd against its will and wore mismatched socks even when it wasn’t cool. Seattle is a global city, while Portland never quite pulls “city” off and can only seem to see as far as Seattle and San Francisco in looking for something to judge itself by, so it’s simultaneously more provincial but also much more full of character. Eugene is similarly insular and hence interesting/ sometimes just insane.

12

Does anyone actually take the train from Hartford to New York? That’s a long commute. Even from New Haven, it’s a long commute. Most people in both cities work either in them or in other towns in Connecticut, or possibly Massachusetts. While Hartford and New Haven themselves are cheap (relatively), both have expensive suburbs, although the towns are less expensive than those closer to Manhattan, like White Plains.

13

I can tell you a bit about Rockville, MD since I’m up the street. It’s not a bad place, though expensive. There is the DC Metro and the MARC train to get into the city. Traffic can be a nightmare, though better then No VA, especially when it rains, or snows. DC is right down the street, and Baltimore isn’t too far away.

There’s also Gaithersburg, MD which is the next town up though they have boarders in common. I live here and find it to be a bit better then Rockville, though I’ve never lived there. I would avoid the Germantown area, the next place north, as it’s crawling with people and growing all the time.

14

Frankly, it seems that Charlottesville would be my pick were I you. It’s not too big, it’s fairly liberal by southern Virginia standards, and it has a great college community. I’ve been there a few times and really liked it. I’ve had friends who lived there and loved it.

Compared to most of your other cities, its weather is better, it’s cheaper, and it has more of the relaxed setting.

15

Cut me a break, loser. At least I’m taking definite (if baby) steps this time. Gotta say, we really liked what little we saw of CT.

The way it works is there is a long process starting with a horrendous application, followed by an interview and a test. Then all 3 portions are graded and all successful applicants are placed on a hiring roster. When an opening arises in a specific location, the person highest on the roster who expressed a willingness to work in that location is hired.

If you are offered a job in a particular location and you decline, you are removed from consideration for that location. If you are then offered a second job and decline, you are removed from the roster for a year.

So I have already said I’d entertain offers for all of the placed I identified - including Philly. All I can really remember about Philly is I wanna avoid the hell outta that Skookyl Parking Lot/aka Highway!

This application process is so screwed up! The posting was open for 2 weeks - or until midnight on the day they got 1,250 applications. So, for all you knew, it could close any day. I came into the office on Sunday - a first in 20+ years - and spent 7+ hours typing the damn application. I guess they figure that if you are stupid enough to jump thru all of their hoops, you are stupid enough to do the damn job!

16

I love the greater Seattle area, it still has a decent people-to-trees ratio in many areas, there’s reliable public transportation, lots to do year 'round, very laid back and liberal with a strong gay community… the downside is it’s been a popular area in recent years, housing prices are on the rise, rents are going up and competition for rentals is high. It’s still an environmentally conscious area (most of the time) with lots of culture, so it’s a question of if the good outweighs the bad for you. Weather-wise, the rain isn’t as bad as some might make it out to be, and it tends to be pretty temperate all year. The rare occasions it snows more than half an inch, the city screeches to a halt as everyone tries to figure out how to deal with all the fluffy white stuff. I moved to the Seattle area sight unseen several years ago and have never regretted it, although as capybara says, it is a city of transplants, which has diluted the region a bit, and some of the outlying areas are getting built up as more people move to the area.

New Hampshire is very small town feeling, even in the cities. Manchester is built up and sprawling, and never felt particularly culturally rich (granted, I was up closer to Concord the year I was in NH, so I may’ve missed out on a lot). NH swelters in the summer and has a major mosquito problem. Snow up to the knees in winter and occasional days where it’s cold enough to have to worry about your lungs freezing solid. I’ll admit I fled NH for the comfort of the Pacific Northwest as quickly as I could.

17

I grew up in Rockville, MD, as did my mother and my grandmother and…(9 generations in that county). It is outrageously expensive (which is why I don’t live there now), but a great area. The schools are excellent, there are a lot of community amenities, and it’s pretty. It’s close to D.C. and reasonably close to Baltimore, so there is a ton of stuff to do. The traffic sucks. There can be a bit of keeping-up-with-the-Jones’ competitive vibe. All-in-all, it was a fantastic place to grow up and I’m often homesick for the area.

18

I’m in the process of applying now too and it’s even worse-rumour has it that they’ve announced the positions but already have people in mind to fill them. :rolleyes: I really feel like I am stuck here in L.A.-the only job I know I can definitely get is in SF since the regional office lost all their transactional attorneys in one fell swoop but that defies the point of moving to be closer to my family.

I think the Boston area is quite nice. I don’t remember the commute down Route 2 being that bad-my father used to drop me off at Alewife and I’d take the T in. ou can email me if you want.

19

Fercryinoutloud! How many lawyers has Regent law school graduated?! :wink:

20

The Hampton Roads area (which includes Norfolk, Virginia Beach, Chesapeake, Portsmouth, Hampton and Newport News), is essentially a military complex. The vast majority of people who live there are either in the military (mostly Navy, but also some Air Force and Army), or work for the military. This makes it a strongly conservative area, which might not be to your liking as a social/political liberal. It is also a very gay-unfriendly area.

The schools are also warehouse-sized and not that great, so if you would move while still having kids in school, I wouldn’t recommend the schools there either.

I’m not sure what non-government salaries are like there these days, but they used to be depressed since the private businesses there knew they could get labor cheap from the military spouses who are essentially a captive labor force. That might be a consideration if your wife plans on finding a job. The cost of living, at least in Virginia Beach, has also skyrocketed in the last few years. For example, when we sold our house in 2000 the asking price was $109,900 (3-bedroom, 2-bath, built in 1959, quarter-acre yard). Comparable houses in that neighborhood are now going for $250,000+ because the city decided they needed a ‘real downtown district’ and decided to put it right next to our old neighborhood. The city finally after many years also got its own water supply system, which I have heard has raised property prices as well. That’s a pretty significant increase in just 7 years.

As for Richmond, plnnr is exactly right when he calls it a large small town. The crime rate is somewhat higher than in the Hampton Roads area, but it has a small-town type charm and grace that Hampton Roads completely lacks. It’s a much more historic area and you will still find a whiff of the Old South there too, which may nor may not appeal.

Charlottesville is beautiful, and also the typical crunchy-granola funky kind of place college towns usually are.

None of them are like Chicago, which is a great grand city. It’s just the weather that sucks. :stuck_out_tongue: