Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread

Incidentally, don’t anyone worry too much about Haley… Elan can just sing her back to normal. Really.

I’ve been following this strip for years (years!), but I don’t know anything about D&D. I rely on you people to help me out with any D&D minutia that I can’t get from context.

What exactly is Zz’dtri? Why was V no match for him/her back when they met in 0065? Has anything (in game mechanics, not plot) changed that would improve V’s chances against him/her now? Isn’t V just as screwed now as s/he was back in 0065?

Z is a dark elf, which is a race that was intended as enemies for relatively powerful player characters; to make them a viable threat, they have some bonus abilities. Among other things, they get spell resistance, which gives them a chance to completely shrug off magical attacks (which prevents PC wizards from just nuking them all). So, to start with, some of V’s spells may just fail against Z.

More importantly for direct spell combat, Z is a sorcerer, while V is a wizard. Wizards can master a greater variety of spells–like when V was copying spells to his book in the Azure City library–but they can’t cast as many per day as a sorcerer. Sorcerers who specialize in battle magic are like arcane artillery platforms.

Wizards, on the other hand, tend to be more like a squad of combat engineers and scouts; yeah, they can shoot people and blow stuff up, but their utility lies more in having the right tools to do a whole bunch of oddball tasks (building bridges, constructing fortifications, gathering information, and so forth).

Basically, V has a broader selection of weapons, but Z has more ammo and better armor.

He’s a Drow - a dark elf - and a parody of the oft-copied character Drizzt Do’Urden. Drizzt was a good-aligned Drow, which was unusual until unimaginitive players started copying him. Zz’dtri, on the other hand, was an evil Drow pretending to be a Drizzt clone, since it’s a lot easier to get away with being evil if people mistake you for a good guy.

It’s a lot easier for a spellcaster to run out of spells at low levels. They’d both burned through their good spells, but Zz’dtri actually had some skill in fighting without magic (presumably a Ranger/Sorcerer multiclass). Now that they’re both a lot higher level, it’s less likely to get to that point.

How come he couldn’t do it for Celia?

He’s gained levels since then, which enabled him to learn some new magic. Specifically, just before he met up with Haley, Belkar, V, and dead-Roy in Greysky, he learned Greater Dispel Magic, which I presume is what Chronos is referring to. (He also learned Mass Cure Light Wounds and Neutralize Poison, so he can heal people a bit now.)

Greater Dispel Magic wouldn’t help Haley, since Flesh to Stone is instantaneous, and hence has nothing to dispel. Using bardic music for Song of Freedom, however, would.

But how did s/he know to look then?

I, for one, totally saw that coming. It was quite obvious to me that the token joke character from 600 or so strips back was coming back at some point.

BTW, the teenage gobs from that one strip are coming back as major antagonists after the Snarl is defeated as well. You heard it here first.

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But how did s/he know to look then?
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It’s quite possible the magical eye followed them off-panel since the first time they set foot on the continent.

Zz’drti, on top of being an amusing reference to a canon Mary Sue from the Forgotten Realms setting, is a dark elf sorcerer. In technical terms, that means he’s got more spells to cast per fight than V does (albeit a narrower selection overall), and he’s got a shitton of natural spell immunities on top of those he can cast. His elven nature means he’s naturally resistant to sleep and mind control spells, and Drows have a native 1/4 (or was it 1/5 ? I forget) chance to simply shrug off any spell thrown at them. He can also wield specific martial weapons on top of his spells which means that even if a strictly magical duel between him and V turned into a stalemate, he’s still got the advantage.
V technically could wield decent weapons too, but he opts not to, as indicated by his behaviour during the siege of Azure City (when the defenders told him he was proficient in Longbows, and V replied “yes, well, proficient doesn’t mean capable with”).

That being said, I wouldn’t bet on the Drow right now. Elan has become half-way competent since the last time their paths crossed.

On the other hand, Sabine and/or Nale could show up at any moment, especially since Z could have called the alarm off-panel.

No, I’m guessing that that half of the Order is going to get bailed out after losing this fight. Probably by Tarquin, possibly by Malack and Durkon, maybe by some other faction.

Huh. That hasn’t come up in our Pathfinder campaign, and I haven’t played 3.0 or 3.5 in years. I think it’s silly, though. It’s clearly an ongoing magical effect, since the creature is still considered to be alive while transformed. It’s not like trying to dispel a Disintegrate, or something. The basic answer remains the same, though: Elan can fix it now because he’s gained levels since Celia was stoned, and he can do new stuff.

Also, that means he just might be able to use his Dispel to take the wind out of Z’s sails in some fashion instead. Z does seem to like flying…

My jaw actually dropped. Another brilliant, unexpected, and completely story-grounded move by the amazing Mr. Burlew!

When we last saw Nale, he was planning on taking over a gate. Tarquin promised to fill Elan in on what he knows about Girard after the games held in his honor. Roy and Belkar are surrounded by guards, Haley is frozen in stone, Durkon is … huh. Where’s Durkon again? Anyway, V. is tied up fighting Z, and Elan is left alone. It’s sure not to be this repetitive, but what if Nale’s plan is to switch place with Elan again and rejoin Tarquin so that he can get the info about Girard? And who could Sabine be masquerading as this time?

In 3.x, a drow’s spell resistance is equal to 11 + his character level. To over come spell resistance, the opposing caster has to roll higher than that on a d20 plus his own caster level. Assuming V. and the drow are the same level, V. has less than a 50% chance of tagging the drow with a spell. Although V’s probably got a couple levels on the drow, what with being a protagonist, and not having an ECL.

Technically, the spell just says he’s not dead. It doesn’t say anything about still being alive. Which sounds nitpicky, but life and death aren’t nearly as dualistic in D&D as in real life.

It has been some time since I played NWN. Would Restoration (or its Greater variant) work too?

Anyway this is a really unexpected twist. I want the next strip. Like NOW.

I have this image of Tarquin showing up at a crucial moment with a bunch of guards:

Tarquin: “Of course I was having you scryed when you left so suddenly! Best case, I find out what your long term plans are. Worst case, I get to see some hot sex with that girlfriend of yours. Speaking of which, I still want to know what you planned to do with the cat.”

Don’t count out Mr. Scruffy! He may be lurking just off panel to jump in and eviscerate the Drow when he isn’t looking. For that matter, wasn’t the Drow glaring at the bird rather than V? What does he know?

Wouldn’t it be great if V was saved by Elan using Greater Dispell on Z at just the right moment? V would have to acknowledge that ELAN saved his/her butt in a duel of magic!

Do crow familiars get a chance to use True Seeing in 3ed?

Not sure how 3.X works, but even if the Flesh to Stone is dispelled, via say, Stone to Flesh, doesn’t the recipient come out of the spell at around 1 hp? Also, isn’t the resulting statue susceptible to being broken if any of the casters start throwing around heavyweight spells like Cone of Cold, Lightning Bolt, etc?

Thought a lot of the guesses on the OOTS boards were that Sabine was masquerading as one of the guards, or as the grizzled drill sergeant character. Or Amun-Zora: basically, I think the idea was if there was any NPC that looked tan or dark, they’re a candidate to be Sabine. (Surprised no one came up with an epileptic tree that Roy had been replaced with Sabine at some point…)

And if we’re reuniting with NPCs from long ago, when does Hilgya make an appearance?

No. Being transmuted by Stone to Flesh can make the victim die of shock (Fortitude save vs. DC15), but if they pass that, or if you use a different spell, you’re fine.

Not really. There are certainly spells that Zz’dtri might have prepared for just such an occasion, but most spells aren’t that good at smashing stone. A maximum level Cone of Cold, for example, would only deal 5 points of damage on an average roll.