Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread

What’s with the expanding images of the victims of the spell? I was figuring it was some sort of concussive effect but the spell descriptions say no. I like the uncial type face used for the word. I imagining Blasphemy would be in fractur.

So, a wizard has a spellbook. When he gains a level or finds a spell on a scroll, he can scribe that spell into his spellbook. So, he might have ten spells, for a given level (spell levels go from 0 - 9) but is limited to how many he can memorize, and therefore cast, a day. So, if he can memorize three, he can pick any three of the ten spells from his spellbook and then can cast them that day. Or he can pick all of the same spell. Or any combination. However, he can’t cast that spell more than once without memorizing it more than once.

An illusionist, then, is a specialist from one of the schools, such as Divination, Necromancy, Evocation, Transmutation and some others. They act the same as the wizard above except that they can’t learn some spells from a school (an illusionist can’t learn necromantic spells for example) but then they can memorize an extra spell per spell level from their specialty school. So, as above, an illusionist would be able to memorize four spells, as long as one of those is an Illusion spell.

In contrast, a sorcerer only knows so many spells per level but can cast any of them she wants up to a set limit per day. So, a sorcerer might have three known spells of a given spell level but can cast any combination of those spells up to the set limit. If that limit is five, she can cast those three spells in any combination up to five total spells cast for that spell level per day.

A cleric, and druid, are divine spell casters, instead of arcane casters. They don’t have spell books. They pray for spells instead of memorize them but the mechanic works the same. They can request any spell from the divine list for a particular spell level and if granted, can cast that spell once, unless they decide to pray for it multiple times for that day.

Scrolls, then, are a when a spell caster, either arcane or divine, puts a spell onto a piece of parchment. It gets into some semantics but there is energy there in the scroll such that it can be directly cast from the scroll, which “burns” or uses up the scroll (so it’s a one shot thing). Or an arcane caster can use the scroll’s use to copy it into his spellbook.

Finally, a potion can hold a spell of up to fourth level and is also a one shot thing activated by drinking it. (There are also oils for the spells like enchanting a weapon and then the oil is applied to the weapon. It’s still a one shot use.)

Hopefully that explains it. Let me know if I wasn’t clear in what I said. There are more details here and there but hopefully that’s a good high level look at what each of those terms mean in DND.

Wizard: gets spells by memorizing them. Has to study hard, requires high Intelligence.
Illusionist: Wizard who specializes in illusions.
Cleric: gets spells by praying to their patron god. Clerics are the only ones who can do magical healing.
Sorcerer: born with the ability to use magic, has more flexibility than a wizard but has fewer spells.

It looks as even Tarquin is affected. I wonder if Elan is using Inspire Greatness?

In general, magic spells can come from several different sources:

Granted from a god or spirit (Cleric/Druid), learning how to tap into the “fundamental” properties of the universe (Wizard), or an innate ability (by birth/genes/whatever) to tap into those fundamental properties (Sorcery, or natural creature abilities like a Medusa’s gaze).

I’m probably forgetting some.

But anywho, specific magic spells (like teleport) are further grouped into schools, which can be important for those who wish to specialise (say you want to be the best demon summoner evah), or for other rules purposes, like “this spell blocks all scrying/divination magic”.

Spells are also assigned a “level”, with level one being a pretty basic, easy to learn, less powerful type. The higher the level, the more experienced or powerful the caster must be.

Level 9 spells or among the most powerful that [some] mortals can achieve, “Epic” spell levels are usually supposed to be pretty farking rare.

That’s not exactly correct. Clerics are the most powerful and flexible magical healers, but druids, bards, paladins, and rangers all have access to some amount of magical healing.

And even wizards and sorcerers have options: you can Polymporph yourself to regain lost hit points, or use Limited Wish to duplicate a clerical spell, that sort of thing. (It’s swatting a fly with a sledgehammer, but it still gets the job done.)

Here’s a link to the Hypertext d20 System Reference Document. More info than you probably want about the whole game mechanic.

As to magic, it’s been really well covered already, but the 50,000 foot view is: [ul]
[li]There are a limited number of spells you can remember per day. [/li][li]Once they’re cast, they’re gone for that day. You can always re-memorize them again, when you Rest for 8 hours. [/li][li]The night before, everyone (other than sorcerors and clerics spontaneously converting spells to healing/harming spells), has to pick which spells they’re going to memorize for the next day. [/li][li]Once memorized, they can’t change it. Choose wisely.[/li][li]The greater the character level, the more spells you can remember.[/li][/ul] Oh, and there are “Feats” that can alter spells: extend their duration, improve the damage they deal out, make them faster to cast. Using those feats costs you in spell memorization room, and you have to decide whether or not to do it the night before, unless you’re a sorcerer as above.

One reason why magic scrolls, potions, etc are so popular is that you don’t need to waste memorization room for those spells. Plus, you can cast them in circumstances where you might not be able to cast a memorized spell (Silenced, Blinded—obviously not in the case of a scroll!—, tied up, etc…) And in the case of potions, the user doesn’t have to be a spell caster. I had thought in 2e that you could even cast from an item if you were taking damage, which was the big bugaboo about casting back then—get a paper cut, lose your Meteor Swarm.

I’m assuming any spells a wizard memorizes and doesn’t use during the course of a day disappear at the end of the day? It’s like a bad cellphone plan with no rollover option.

Can you make scrolls for your own use? Like if you are planning on a quiet day around the castle, you can put five of your spells into scroll form. Then tomorrow, when you’re storming a dungeon, you’ll have these five scrolls plus the spells you memorized that day.

Interesting site. I’m going to have to read through it.

I like Order of the Stick, but I’m reading it like it’s a fantasy novel. Sometimes I miss jokes or other references because Burlew is using a background I’m not familiar with.

That varies with edition. In 1E/2E you do get to keep all spells until cast or until you drop it to memorize something else. 3E assumed you lost every day and had to memorize. But there was a big difference in memorizing times between systems.

In 3E, your second example mostly works. Maybe not that many per day, but I don’t know the specifics off hand. However, earlier versions didn’t allow for player characters to make scrolls without some extra options. Or if the DM allowed it.

Making scrolls has an associated cost, and the cost also determines how long it takes to make one. Based on the SRD item creation feats info, scribing a scroll costs

Spell level x Caster level * 25gp.

So, you could make a really cheap scroll of a 1st level spell by making its effective caster level also 1. That isn’t always a good idea, though, because the caster level often changes the effect of the spell in various ways–a higher caster level makes the spell last longer, or do more damage, or otherwise improves it. A level 1 Grease spell, for instance, only lasts 1 round, which isn’t very useful. The way to make cheap, useful scrolls is to use them for utility spells with fixed effects. You might scribe a large number of Endure Elements scrolls, for example, to prepare for an adventure in the desert or tundra–the spell provides protection for 24 hours, regardless of caster level. So, each Endure Elements scroll would cost you 25 gold.

According to the Scribe Scroll feat, scribing a scroll takes 1 day (let’s assume 8 hours) for every 1000gp of its base cost. If the time required scales down linearly by cost, you could conceivably prepare 40 scrolls of Endure Elements a day, churning out scrolls at a rate of one every 12 minutes.

Creating magic items, including scrolls, also has a cost in experience points…but it’s 1/25 of the gold cost, so each scroll would only cost 1 xp–that’s not going to slow down your advancement by much.

[QUOTE=Balance;15320727According to the [Scribe Scroll feat]
(Feats :: d20srd.org), scribing a scroll takes 1 day (let’s assume 8 hours) for every 1000gp of its base cost. If the time required scales down linearly by cost, you could conceivably prepare 40 scrolls of Endure Elements a day, churning out scrolls at a rate of one every 12 minutes.
[/QUOTE]

The way the rule is written limits you to one scroll per day. Allowing multiples of low-level scrolls is a common house rule; but you’ll never be able to do 40unless you’re high enough level to prepare 40 copies of that spell per day.

A 14th level sorcerer with an 18 Charisma could cast it 42 times a day, since you can always use a higher-level spell slot for a lower-level spell. That’s not so outlandish, especially since the OotS PCs are in that level range.

I also consider the bit in the magic item creation section about requiring a minimum of 1 day for any magic item to be a bit of blithering idiocy, akin to V’s complaint about taking up multiple pages of a spellbook to write down one word. I’m inclined to believe the authors didn’t think it through properly in regard to low-level items. That’s why the house rule is so common–it’s a bug fix, not a new feature.

The one word is just the trigger. It’s like a land mine - even though the only thing you need to do to activate it is push the button, you still have to build the thing first.

I missed this before … This is a very common use of the feat for 3E wizards in particular. They have may useful utility-type spells available that you won’t need very often at all, but can save the day once in a very long while. So, rather than take up a valuable daily spell slot with one of those spells, you’ll prepare a scroll or two of it during downtime to keep in your back pocket for the day when it’s desperately needed.

Wizards who use this strategy are sometimes referred to as ‘Batman’, because they’re always prepared. :slight_smile:

Last time I played 3.5, I convinced the group to set aside another share of treasure to be used for ‘sundries’. About 90% of it went into the making of scrolls for spells we’d like to have around, but didn’t want to keep memorized. Then I essentially operated my Wizard as a combat Sorcerer, only memorizing offensive spells and buffs.

Yes, I’m aware of the rationalizations.

My reward was waiting for me when I got home last night. Finished reading all of the books a couple of hours ago. :smiley: First time I have read most of the beginning all together. And the bonus materials are nice additions. Now he just needs to get the next compilation out!

Sabine’s got some Rogue levels; she needs them to find traps. It’s implied that she’s rusty with them, though, and she’s probably not a high-level rogue. Succubi have a Class Level Adjustment of +6, so if she had nine levels in Rogue, she’d have an Effective Character Level of 15, which would put her on par with any individual member of the OOTS, with a will save of 10. Regardless of Durkon’s level (he’s got to be at least level 13 to cast Holy Word at all), then Sabine must make a Will save of 10(base)+7(seventh level spell)+3(Durkon’s Wisdom must be at least 17 to cast Holy Word, but it may be higher). Sabine’s will save is 10, minus four for this particular situation for an effective Will save of 6, and she must make 20 to stay. She therefore has only a sixteen percent chance to not be banished.