Yup. I remember the keen disappointment when my fighter/magic user blew his roll to learn Magic Missle. I saved the slot though and did some mulling over. The guy, being elven, was an archer. Arrows cause the same damage as MM, and the attacks per round go up at the same rate (fighter levels) as MM would have (mage levels). I laid this out to the GM and he okayed spell research for a bow charm — a spell laid on the bow that would make a shot never miss, a Magic Missile substitute. Worked out great with an added bonus neither of us had considered: Since the spell was on the bow, not the arrow, it would penetrate an Antimagic Field just fine. Came in handy one time, it did.
I don’t know what you were using that gave you an extra shot every other level, but apart from that the spell sounds reasonably balanced. Being able to penetrate Antimagic Field is counterbalanced by being repelled by Protection from Arrows and the fact that most critters take full damage from Magic Missile even if they’re immune to mundane - or even +1 or +2 - arrows.
A few points.
I was quite surprised to re-read the 1E PH and see that the suggestion by Gygax was to talk with the group and explain what the adventure was that session before spells were prepared (mage and cleric) to let them pick the best spells for that adventure. (I can look it up if people need a cite but don’t have it in front of me.) So it was at least suggested to make it easy.
The only other thing that I have not seen mentioned is that in 3E, a wizard can leave a slot open and not memorize anything in case they want to memorize something later in the day. It takes time, though, so it’s not something you can do in combat.
But yes to what has been mentioned. I remember having to shoot my one spell as a mage and then use a crossbow from the back and hope none of the monsters got past! Or failing that learn the spell roll!
3E has some of that but more options. I also like the direction that PF went, in terms of specialty mages and their extra abilities as well as sorcerer bloodlines.
I think the big change that 3E did is while the “rule zero” is still there a lot more character stuff is in the player’s hands, which is what I think it should be.
Great discussion! Thanks!
I don’t recall using the roll to learn a spell more than a couple of times. I played in high school with 3 guys and we rotated GMing. We also had 4-6 characters each and would each choose 2 for whatever adventure we were playing in, so we each had a Wizard. Once people started getting gimped on critical spells (“What the hell? I can’t learn Dispel Magic? NO FUCKING WAY!”) the idea that you’d have to roll a chance to learn it went away real quick.
These days, you can opt to “take 10” or “take 20” on a dice roll, under specific circumstances, i.e. you have all the time in the world and aren’t in any danger (be it immediate or potential). In both case, you simply don’t throw the die at all and proceed as if you’d just rolled 10 or 20, add modifiers, skill points etc…
Taking 10 is basically “I do this, but am very careful about it” which typically takes 10-20 minutes, while taking 20 is “for the next X hours/days/weeks, succeeding in this action will be my character’s main focus and should I fail I will try, try again”.
So, while there’s technically still a roll to learn a spell/copy it to one’s spellbook, in practice as long as you don’t try to do it while still inside the dungeon you won’t fail and lose the original spell scroll. Because *everybody *hated that sorry shit :).
[QUOTE=Left Hand of Dorkness]
If I played with a DM who said, “This splatbook [non-core-rulebook] spell that lets you nauseate all opponents within 30’ at second level is more powerful than the third-level stinking cloud, I don’t consider it well-thought-out, let’s figure out how to nerf it or else choose a different spell,” I’d be fine with that.
[/QUOTE]
Heh, I did one better when I rolled one of my current PF characters, a Witch.
If you don’t play Pathfinder, Witches are basically wizards with a more constrained spell list, some druid-y spells thrown in, fewer spells/level because no specialty allowed, and hexes. Hexes are at-will spell-like abilities that are sort of a back-up for when you’ve flung all your “real” spells. They can still be pretty powerful, letting you do stuff like making people re-roll dice or giving them modifiers (positive or negative) to lots of things.
And then there’s the Slumber hex. Which does exactly what it says on the tin : you cast it on someone (without having to make a ranged touch attack, either), they get one saving throw - which, as with all hexes, will be pretty high since it’s a straight 10+Caster level+Int mod - and if they fail it they fall asleep for CasterLevel rounds. No HD limits, no spell resistance, and only constructs+undead are immune. Ancient Black Elemental Demonic Dragon ? Take a nap, bitch.
This is a hex you can take at level 1.
There is also a hex that says “spend a move action to cackle, active hexes with a limited duration within 30’ last one more round”. You can also have that one at level 1. There is a feat that lets you cast single-target hexes on multiple people, from level 10 onwards. At that level, you also get access to Eternal Slumber, which is like Slumber except the victims don’t wake up at all even if harmed - the only ways to end it are to kill the Witch or make a Wish.
So, combo all that and you’ve pretty much got an at-will mass save-or-die spell, with the only caveat being that if somebody resists they become immune to it. For 24h. Then you get to try again.
I brought this to the attention of my DM, who said “Hmm. That does sound pretty good”. And I said “Fuck good, that sounds broken as hell. So let me reassure you : I’m never taking this one.” 
I’d extend the same logic to core spells. And by “core spells”, I of course mean Mordekeinen’s Disjunction. If it had a casting time of, say, ten minutes, it would be fine. But as a spell you can cast in combat, it either means one PC is destroying tons of valuable magic loot, or it means an NPC is destroying tons of the PCs’ magical gear. Either way, a single Standard action takes half an hour to resolve as everyone works out what they’re left with.
Nitpick - taking 10 doesn’t increase the time needed for a skill check. Taking 20 increases the time needed by a factor of 20. The idea there being, you’re just going to keep rolling the die until you get a natural 20. Taking 10 can’t be done under pressure (such as during combat) without taking some specific feats/class abilities. Taking 20 can’t be done if there’s a penalty for failing. You can’t take a 20 on disarming a trap or bluffing a guard, for example.
Wait, is this accurate? Your full caster level? Usually things like that would be half caster level (which is still pretty good, as it means that it’s keeping up with your best spells over your whole career).
You’re right–it’s 1/2 level.
It suddenly occurs to me that once the book is done, we could have the thread moved to the Game Room. 
Right, my mistake, it’s 1/2 indeed :smack:. Which, as you note, is still pretty beefy and never becomes obsolete.
Heh.
I wonder how much of a hiatus we can expect. It’s getting to be a dead period for my usual webcomics, with Erfworld and Girl Genius running filler stories for the next couple of months and Bad Machinery on the usual holiday break.
I for one am seriously jonesing for some D&D these days. Jim (What Exit?) ran a most excellent Middle Earth RPG here and later on Mellophant for years, but that wound up some time ago. 
Darn, I was hoping for one more 2013 comic by now, but I guess we’re done for the year. C’mon, Rich, we only got two strips in December! And, yes, I am impatient to see how the Tarkie Affair winds up! 
Happy New Year, all!
One week into January, we’ll pick up with Xykon, Left-Eye, and the MitD arriving at the last Gate, looking for O-Chul. In around June, the OOTS will show up, making indecipherable references to their harrowing escape from the Windy Canyon.
And Nale’s gf will be with them, in Belkar’s old slot (again, with no clear explanation of how that came to pass).
And just as Tarquin is system-aware enough to know that Elan can survive being run through with a greatsword, Elan knows Dad can survive a plummet from an airship.
[spoiler]“And you’re not the real villain.”
Ouch, a definite hit by Elan there; look at Tarquin’s eyes.[/spoiler]
So I guess Elan assumed Tarquin had at least 121 hp left.
He just figured the story would work better if Tarquin ended up alive but frustrated at the lousy ending. Therefore, Tarquin would survive.