This. There’s no indication in any of the D&D material I’ve read that this is how vampirism works. For that matter, is this the way it is with all sentient undead? You wouldn’t assume that Xykon’s soul is trapped inside some other entity. Nothing in the materials ever gave hint that vampiric undead were somehow unique from other sentient undead in this regard.
So it’s strange and maybe the answer is “that’s just how it works” but in that case it seems like an unusual departure from the rules. Or, Durkon is a unique case for some reason (Hel had been waiting for a powerful dwarf PC to die so she could implant a spirit in him, for example) which would be a reason for wondering what’s up.
It kind of reminds me more of the proxy/power relationship from the old Planescape setting rules. An independent but completely loyal agent of a god, rather than a thrall. Proxies have a lot of independence, because you pretty much have to already agree 100% with a power’s goals to be chosen as one by that power. By virtue of that independence and CHOSEN loyalty, they’re much more valuable and creative than a thrall would be because their conscious personality isn’t overridden by their master/mistress.
ETA: And yes, I’m aware that the dialogue seems to contraindicate the entity in Durkula being a proxy. I’m just saying that it REMINDS me of the proxy role.
So what do you think of those who are disappointed in the twist because they were looking forward to Durkon character development vis a vis being a LG character who’s been vampirized?
It’s not quite that; the feeling is that their expectation advances character development for someone who hasn’t gotten a lot of it compared to the other members of the Order while the “reality” does not. I think many are Durkon fans who feel that he’s gotten short shrift, and that this just continues that trend.
I honestly think this IS going to advance Durkon’s character arc. He’s always been a stolid, stable, kind of boring character (other than the momentary fidelity lapse with Hilga). Now he’s having quite a bit of personal trauma and it’ll be interesting to see how he changes from it.
And there’s also no indication in any D&D material that this is not how vampirism works. The rules are annoyingly silent on the matter, which leaves room for an author to come up with his own internally-consistent mechanics.
Also known as the Air Bud rule. “Hey, it doesn’t say in the rules that a dog can’t play basketball so it must be legal!”
Burlew has every right to build whatever world he wants. When he deviates from the source material, people also have the right to wonder about it. Every other advanced sentient undead (liches, death knights, revenants, what-have-you) I can think of is still considered to be controlled by the spirit of its living owner (even if that spirit is now corrupted by the process). For vampires to have some completely separate soul jar style effect is fine if that’s what Burlew wants but it’s not consistent with the broader general view of sentient undead.
Aren’t those other sentient undead generally created from volunteers, though? Xykon was certainly willing to go through with the process. I expect his soul is pretty much the same as when he was alive, just now it commands a shiny new skeletal body. It seems pretty reasonable that creating a sentient undead from an unwilling host could be a very different process.
Is it possible that Hel was watching at the moment of Malack’s demise, and simply made use of a once-in-a-cycle-of-the-Universe opportunity to seize a newly-masterless vampiric thrall?
That’s true - skeletons and zombies certainly don’t retain their souls.
It seems to me that the term “undead” covers two very different clades, so to speak: dead bodies returned to a semblance of life, and dead souls that refuse to depart the mortal realm. The former includes zombies and vampires; the second, specters and ghosts. Liches, IMHO, belong to the second group - as we’ve seen, a lich’s body is more or less disposable.
Some undead go into it willingly. Some are created against their will or at least without their consent; death knights, spectres and huecuva for example. I’m talking only of the ones you could have a conversation with (in theory) and not mindless ones like skeletons or animalistic ones like ghouls and wights.
Anyway, my greater point is just that it seems appropriate to wonder if Durkon’s situation is somehow unique, especially with the direct intervention of Hel.
Well, the gods created the Stickworld so they can apparently exist pre-followers.
Really, they created a world, got it messed up by the Snarl, dismantled it and then created a new world. So at least twice they’ve all been with zero followers.
“Nobody” in that statement might be hyperbole: There probably are a few very rare scattered followers of Hel. However, it’s probably reasonable to assume that none of them are even remotely close to being 16th-level clerics (heck, 16th-level clerics of any deity are extremely rare), so the vampirized Durkon being promoted straight to High Priest is still quite reasonable.
And saying that “Vampires should work the same way as all other intelligent undead” doesn’t help, since the rules don’t say anything about how those work, either.
