*I have been told there are Orthodox adherents to these ideas (ie moon landing was a hoax and the world is flat), but I have yet to find solid references. Alex Nussbaum makes the following fascinating claims, but without bibliographic citation: “At least one Right-wing Orthodox Jewish rabbinical authority had his followers watch the Fox special on the moon landing being a government conspiracy (on tape of course, so commercials showing females could be removed). Though exposure to the popular media is forbidden among the right wing Orthodox, this exception was made as it offered proof of the rabbinical belief that the moon is a spiritual being, hence no landing possible. At one of the secular degree granting college under orthodox auspices, despite the disparagement on television watching, a large number of students had access to that Fox special, and delighted that it provided evidence as to gentile sciences that contradicted the torah being frauds.”
Are you asking a question?
I’m not sure how the Flat-Eathers fit into this, but all religions (and indeed all cultures and subcultures) have nutcases.
I’ll go on record as saying I believe the moon landing was real and the earth is round.
It’s closer to an ellipsoid. Heretic.
The turtle moves…
Here’s a webpage referring to (I think) an Orthodox Jewish rabbi who believes that the moon landing was faked because the moon is a spiritual being which can’t be walked on:
Incidentally, wouldn’t it make sense to ask this question on a message board for Orthodox Jews (or whatever) rather than one for snide people like us who will make fun of the very notion of doubting the moon landing?
He didn’t comment on its shape other than that he believes it’s round. Aren’t ellipsoid’s round?
The moon is a spiritual being? Shades of Guy Gavriel Kay’s Kindath (see “The Lions of al-Rassan”). The Kindath, obviously modeled on the Jews, worshipped the two moons.
Wendell, I think you misunderstood the story. The point is that Kaminetsky didn’t think the moon landing was faked and declared that Maimonides, in his medieval opinion rendered on the moon, was wrong. It’s a famous story. Some Modern Orthodox like it because it shows that the rabbinic sages of yesteryear supposedly were open to science and new discoveries to change their worldview. Some Haredim like it because it shows that Maimonides, the rationalist sage who relied on secular knowledge of his time, was completely wrong, thus justifying their refusal to believe in evolution and other aspects of modern science (i.e. "we see that Maimonides’s approach to the world, relying on the secular sciences, was WRONG. We have to completely immerse ourselves in TALMUD to get the truth).
To the Modern Orthodox, I would answer that it should not be a point of pride that it took a sage until they landed on the moon for him to declare that Maimonides was wrong. As for the haredim, nebuch, you can’t win that argument, no matter how many examples of medieval “Torah-only” sages you bring who got things wrong; they can all be reinterpreted :smack: .
Here’s what I read in that passage in the webpage I gave:
Moses Maimonides, who is sometimes referred to as Rambam, believed that the moon is a spiritual being. He lived from 1135 to 1204, so he obviously had no opinion about the moon landing in 1969. Some present-day Kabbalah scholars think that Rambam wouldn’t have believed a moon landing was possible, since they think that he would have said that it’s impossible to land on a spiritual being. R. Jaakov Kaminetsky, who is apparently a rabbi and a Kabbalah expert, watched the moon landing and said that Rambam must be wrong about the moon being a spiritual being.
The webpage I gave says that there are some Jews who think that Rambam could never be mistaken. Since he could never be mistaken, the moon landing couldn’t have happened. This group of Jews were happy to find that there was a group of (non-Jewish) people who were convinced that the moon landing was a fake.
It’s clear that you know a lot about the Kabbalah. Why are you asking us this question? Surely people who know about the Kabbalah should know more about this subject that we would. It’s vaguely possible that someone here may have a knowledge of the Kabbalah and of the various groups who study it, but asking the question here is probably not the most efficient way to answer it. Can’t you find a Kabbalah message board?
With regards to the first paragraph quoted: I understand that and I appreciate another secondary source referring to Orthodox Jews who don’t believe in the moon landing, even if it doesn’t provide me with a primary reference or names. I was taking issue with your previous statement that the blog post referred to “an Orthodox Jewish rabbi who believes that the moon landing was faked because the moon is a spiritual being which can’t be walked on.”
With regards to the second question, I don’t know much about Kabbalah. I’ve just hit a dead end on my question and when I hit a dead end, I come to the teeming millions. I also happen to know of several Orthodox Jews on this forum.
I stopped using aish.com as a source when I found an article claiming that the bombardier beetle was proof that evolution could not have happened. The article also made provably false claims about the abilities of the beetle.
I have found creationists to be a tiny minority among us though.
Trust me Doc, you’re wrong on that count. They might be the minority in the Modern Orthodox world, but in the Haredi world, young earth creationism is all the rage. Generally speaking, you can count the gedolim (rabbinic sages), rashei yeshiva (yeshiva deans), Jonathan Rosenblum, Avi Shafran, and many many other figures among them in the young earth creationist camp. And haredi yeshiva students? Forget about it, they’ve cashed in with young earth creationism too. The exceptions to the rule in the haredi world are advocates of intelligent design.
I see on your profile that you’re from Philly. A word to the wise: shmooze with some people from the yeshiva some time. I really think you might be fascinated by what you find.
Silly wabbitus
Silly wabbitus
The only thing worse than fundamentalist creationists is fundamentalist creationists of a different religion. Especially if they insist that their belief is part of their culture and if you insist it isn’t true you’re oppressing them. :rolleyes: