OBL did not even want the US to be in SA temporarily during Gulf War I,
and I would like a citation, please, for this promise you mention. Even if
we made such a promise it was superceded by invitation of the SA government.
Furthermore, even if the US had not set foot in SA I think it is likely that
Israel’s mere exisitence would have been enough to incite OBL to his
life of terror.
Bad analogy. Eisenhower was active in planning and execution of the campaign. Deservedly he, rather than Roosevelt or Truman, got the credit.
Having said that it’s perfectly natural that some of the glory should reflect on the incumbent. I’m also pleased to see that Obama kept Clinton and Bush in the loop beforehand as those Presidents too fought the good fight against terror whilst in office.
DNFTT (calling someone a troll) is not appropriate for this forum. Save it for the Pit.
I think we can be sure it he’s dead. If not, he’ll be on video in a week with a copy of that day’s New York Times. You can bet on that. How much of a blow would that be to U.S. credibility?
Obama isn’t going to risk that unless they are sure.
You don’t think Obama might have been heavily involved in the planning and execution of a military operation on the soil of a foreign sovereign state? :dubious:
Well duh, but he might have gotten over after a decade if we had left.
My cite: Wright, Lawrence, The Looming Tower.
Wild speculation based on nothing, means nothing, adds nothing to the discussion. Along the lines of ‘what if Nazis had cavalry mounted on t-rexes.’ Cool story bro.
Relations between the U.S. and Pakistan are more complex than that. Al Qaeda was a declared enemy of the civilian government, since they tried to kill ex-President Musharraf and they did kill Benazir Bhutto, but their were still some ties between AQ and Pakistan’s intelligence services and it IS hard to believe nobody in Pakistan knew bin Laden was holed up where he was. I do think that if the pro-U.S. or U.S.-tolerant parts of the government knew, they would have said something. The Pakistani government is fractious and different groups within it have different purposes. But I do think the Obama administration was less trusting of Pakistan (and don’t forget Musharraf, who Bush seemed to trust or think was crucial, is gone now) and felt that Pakistan and Afghanistan were more interconnected than the Bush administration seemed to.
“Do you see Larry! Do you see what happens when you fuck a stranger in the ass! Do you see what happens!”
Well, there goes my hope of thinking today’s Canadian election will get the slightest bit of coverage on CNN …
As I said in the Pit thread, I really don’t like all this celebrating. It’s a solemn occasion, and we shouldn’t be dancing on the guy’s grave and acting like our team just won the Super Bowl. Good riddance, ObL, but I’m not in a celebratory mood over this thing.
Interesting that this article appeared just 5 days before his death…
What is really weird is that to my students (16-18), it’s a non-event. Some guy that’s supposed to be really bad died. It doesn’t mean anything to them.
Good God, no! I would hope any competent President would leave it to the experts. What expertise would Obama have on the planning and execution of military operations? He’s a politician.
He may not have formulated the plan, but he definitely approved it. In fact, he may have been chosen between several possible actions.
That’s what being in charge means - making the ultimate decision.
Some other details I found interesting:
CNN reports [as of the 8:52 a.m. Eastern update] that the mission was intended to kill bin Laden, not to capture or kill him. However ABC reports that bin Laden was asked to surrender, and was shot dead after he refused (it’s not clear from the wording if they mean he verbally refused or kept shooting or what have you). He was shot once in the head, and shot a second time to make sure he was dead. CNN said [at 7:30 Eastern) that there are photographs of him, but the government has not decided if they will be released.
ABC also has this to report on DNA analysis to confirm it’s him:
I put this link in the MPSIMS thread, but I’ll put it here too: http://www.yasrsly.com/obamas-speech-hes-dead-gif/511331/
Now that would have been dramatic Mr President!
This is obviously a typo and whatever the original statement was seems to be gone from your link. What’s it supposed to say?
The conspiracy-minded ought to be ignored. They do not think rationally anyway.
I said what I meant to, but the emphasis might be unclear: the intent of the mission was to kill bin Laden, not capture or kill him. The update is still there if you scroll down far enough:
Why are you adding the ‘or kill’? The update you quoted only talks about taking him alive.