But if you are asking people here to believe this stuff—it has to be able to be replicated. If this is all just a faith based issue like religion, then have at it, but don’t be shocked when people tell you that you are full of it. GD is the place for witnessing, but I would hope that we could take the discussions further then that—thus the need to know ‘why’.
Not to be blunt here, but YOU are the one who keeps posting that you have all these scientific studies that prove your case. But if they can’t meet these simple requirements (which are NOT complicated) then they are not scientific in nature and thus useless for any discussion purposes.
If all you are here is for witnessing purposes then there isn’t anything to discuss. Science is the tool I think everyone here is using as the most common way to deal with proof. Science isn’t everything, but neither is Faith.
Guin, it’s a classic bit of gaming known as a “persuader exercise”. It’s used by hypnotists to convince someone that external forces are acting upon them so the subject will allow themselves to become more open to suggestion, when what’s really happening is the hypnotist is simply starting them on the first few steps of autohypnosis without making it explicit.
Really? Nuts, now you tell me… So, anyone want to buy a pendulum? :smack: like new
As to the Ouija thing (Yay that we’re back on this)
Thought I saw this way, way near the beginning but maybe we could revisit it… since that was so long ago
A simple test to see if these things “work” (as in spirit communication) try the blindfold thing - Blindfold the participants and then turn the board about a few times. I have tried this (with actual believers who were just using it) and was quite amazed at how much this interfered with the “spirits” ability to answer even the most remedial questions coherently.
What is really sad here is that the ideomotor effect (along with other subconscious ways we fool ourselves) is so unappreciated outside of the sciences.
I think the reason it is not appreciated outside of science is because it is meaningless. All it does is to rename the phenomenon, while not explaining it or answering the question why. Sort of like “spontaneous remission” adds nothing to the understanding of why people get well suddenly. Science has a lot of these words and phrases without meaning.
Well I can tell you my side of it. He got upset that I got to church 1/2 hour early and was praying, rather quietly, He also didn’t like it that I raised my hand to the Lord in worship songs (nothing outside of that, I was not singing any louder then the rest, nor making any other noise then the words). He raises his hand and wants to direct the people if they can do that or clap their hands. One of my conditions of being re-communicated is that I sit only in the back and don’t raise my hand in worship. Some of the members told me that they are encouraged when they saw me raise my hands, and they felt like they wanted to do it also, but they feel restrained. I told them the relationship is between them and the Lord, and raising of hands and praise in described in scripture as the Holy Spirit’s work in their life and they should follow it.
He has also done very much to discourage me from finding the Lord and not going through him. He threw many obsticals in my way, and told me things directly countered by scriptures, and told the congregation the same. He also seems to be controlled by his wife, and her wife is the one really leading the services indirectly which scripturally is very very dangerous.
Most of the revelations and opening of the scriptures came after this pastor. He (and she) has set up people that they can control in positions of power. It is very much the structure that the pharassies enjoyed and the congregation was/is kept in their place. He would also try to bind them with guilt, from things like not driving following all the traffic laws all of the time perfectly. (this btw is the legalism that Jesus came to set us free of).
He also didn’t like it that I didn’t always obey him, he wanted the men to come up and sing 5 minutes early before service, but I was lead to pray and didn’t go up.
I performed the test. I discovered that a pendulum tends to swing back and forth until something stops it.
So does that mean I’ll get the Ronco Bedazzler for my birthday or not?
How is renaming an ambiguous description with a specific, well defined, title meaningless?
The “ideomotor effect” renamed “spirits are doing it” (or similar magical thinking) and redirected the search to (natural causes within) our nervous and muscular systems - something we understand pretty well and can find evidence for. This is exactly opposite of meaningless.
Before you caution other posters to read carefully and not to make assumptions you should perhaps take that advice yourself.
InvisibleWombat stated the following immediately after you posted your ‘experiment’ :
“Yep, I’ve played that game. Didn’t work at all for me, although I watched other people do it. They never got a single piece of actual useful information.”
One descriptive term is as good as another. Expecially when the “why” is not known. Science worships materalism because they can usually measure it. Does not mean there isn’t something else besides materialism in this world. If science continues to claim only materialism it (science) will be bypassed for other organizations that are willing to study all possibilities.
He didn’t say what happened only that he got not useful information. I never asked for useful information. It doesn’t matter just a chance to observe something unknown.
okay I tried it
nothing happened except it swung back and forth
now what?
So no useful information, no useless information. Nothing happened.
I observed nothing beyond it swinging back and forth
Please do NOT dismiss my observations with one of your smarmy ‘you can’t see if you aren’t willing to’ diatribes that you have used in the past. I went in with an open mind and observed nothing. My observations are just as valid as yours–so what is your explanation for nothing happening?
If you had followed the directions you probably would have a different movement of the pendulum for the yes answer than for the no answer.
Don’t you wonder why it swings at all. I think Newton would have.
Several years ago I read some of the writings of an Admiral during WWII. He stated the allies had made a landing and were barely holding on. They knew the Germans had reinforcements on the way but didn’t know where they were.
After exhausting all logic as to where they may be a sailor offered to use a pendulum on the map. He had been good at finding water and things. The Admiral allowed the sailor to do so, and he quickly pointed to a spot on the map where he said he was sure the Germans were grouping. After swearing the sailor to secrecy, the Admiral ordered all the guns of the fleet to that spot and the 14" Battlewagon guns pounded the spot for an hour. The sailor was right and the German reinforcements slaughtered. The Admiral related this story about 8 years after the war was over and he had retired. I am only passing the information on, don’t care what you think about it.