This is bog-standard anti-Roman-Catholic bigotry and, as such, has no business here.
Well then, what of those faiths that, in your words, are supported by various gods, but ultimately answer to the Christian god? If believing in them gets you to believing in him, how can they not be intermediaries?
And how does that square with the Deuteronomy verses quoted above?
They are of the enemy. My understanding is that the lesser gods and their believers will be thrown into the lake of sulfur and fire as they ultimately answer to God. The lesser gods will not/can not lead a person to God themselves, thought God can use such a experance to the greater good.
A perfect fit.
If you are refering to me, please tell me anywhere in scriptures it says to worship a false god (demon or fallen angel)? And what part of RCC dogma would allow this?
Are you familiar with the fallacy of begging the question?
OK. I misunderstood what you meant by “ultimate authority.” I was thinking about a chain of command, to use an imperfect analogy.
Does it say anywhere that it’s bad to worship true gods/demons/idols? Because I’ve got a couple in the basement.
Yes, multiple places
The topic is Ouija boards. Please take the other topics elsewhere. Thank you.
Could a Ouija board have warned Jesus about that whole crucifixion rap if they’d been around back then?
Not meaningfully, since as I understand the mythology he being omniscient he already knew it was going to happen. But leaving aside the meaninglessness of warning somebody of something they already know about, presumably he being omnipotent he could easily have moved the pointer to the right letters.
The Ouija board is comparable to a idol of sorts, it is not the idol itself, but the spirits (demons) that are the ones who animate such objects. Could the demons have warned Jesus, I doubt it, Jesus had command over them, not the other way around, and Jesus seemed to have very little interest in having a casual conversation with them. Also there is the question of if the demons knew to a detail level beyond what was revealed to Jesus Himself. I think it’s safe to assume they were aware of the OT scriptures that spoke of Jesus, but perhaps not the insight to get details.
Just to add, Jesus did not know everything while He was made man, only what the Father would allow.
So while a ouija board of sorts may have been used in that time, I doubt it would be of much informative use with Jesus.
Such things like Ouija boards come under the heading of occult contact objects by many Christian, which are objects that are used to obtain spiritual information (and effects) outside the channel set by God. The very nature of such a discussion will venture into the spiritual as that is what the purpose of such a board is.
Dude, I just quoted the Guy, with a slight interpretation–slight, you will note, and not nearly the heavy-handed force-fitting the modern monotheists do. I just wanted to show that, back in the day, He was cool with there being other gods, as long as His own people didn’t worship them, and your verse reinforces that.
I believe he is referring to your condemnation of people believing in intermediaries, with which Catholicism is rife.
What I’m not understanding is kanicbird’s assumption that the spirits pushing the planchette are evil.
Yes this is how I took it, I was referring to false gods (demons / fallen angels ) exclusively which I would say is not RCC dogma.
planchette? they actually have a name for that thing? They are evil because they teach you to look for supernatural answers outside of God, they lead you away from God, away from eternal life to eternal death for their own selfish reasons, which is evil.
This is probably my fault, since I let the thread ride. The Staff Report was about how Ouija boards work, not about whether they are inherently evil. I probably should have moved the thread when first I saw it, but I didn’t. However, as Czarcasm has already said, please try to limit discussion here to Ouija Boards. Comments about idolatry, theological intermediaries, the nature of the divine, etc belong in the Great Debates forum, in another thread.
I’d suggest taking a peak at
However, all of those things ARE involved in one answer to how Ouija boards work. This may be a theological discussion, but since there are MANY people who believe what kanicbird believes about them, though David dismissed their beliefs quickly and snottily, any discussion of how Ouija boards operate WILL include a discussion of spirits, both good and evil, as well as a a discussion of the ideomotor effect. After all, contacting the “spirit world” is the whole POINT of using a Ouija board! People don’t buy them to study involuntary muscular actions.
First, a disclaimer - This is just what I’ve heard other people say, I’ve never played with one.
A Ouija, by itself, is nothing more than cardboard and plastic and thus cannot be evil. The problem you may have is that an unfocused and/or untrained “medium” may wish to contact a beloved relative that passed on, but is unable to make that direct of a connection. Without knowing how to protect themselves or their friends, they basically throw their psychic doors open and hang out a big ol’ invitation to any passing entity. The responding critter may be good, bad, or neutral, there’s no way of knowing in advance, but most probably won’t be whoever they were trying to reach.
I’m not sure why I bothered, the OP is long gone and no one else believes in these things.
Yes, I agree, and some discussion of whether “spirits” are involved and whether they are good or evil is (I suppose) unavoidable. That’s why I say it’s my fault – I should have moved the thread as soon as I saw what the OP was asking. However, what I was trying to say above: can we limit the discussion of spirits and ghosties et al to their relationship to the Ouija Board? We don’t need to get into Catholic theology, the role of saints, whether Jesus was omniscient, etc.
As far as I’m aware they don’t sell Ouija boards in toy stores here. I’d heard they’re banned but it could just be tradition.
I’ve had various experiences of trying it out and once I had a genuinely scary experience with it. It wasn’t because we contacted the spirit world (that I know of), it was that the girl I was doing it with was a bit unhinged. She pushed the coin around the board really fast and started asking some really weird, personal questions and getting really weird answers.