Overweight Middle Aged Spike fans... your thoughts? Also, why autographs?

Cafe Society
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I went to go see James Marsters’ band, ** Ghost of the Robot, ** last weekend. They play at a funky little bar in Santa Monica, and this is the second time I’ve gone to see them/him.

As you might guess, it is a bit of a madhouse scene, almost 100% female, and pretty much 99.9% hardcore ** Spike ** fans. (as in * Buffy The Vampire Slayer * , if anyone doesn’t already know that who is reading this thread). After the show, everyone lines up around the block, ostensibly to meet the band, but really just to meet JM. He sits at a table and signs anything you put in front of him, in spite of the warning from handlers that “no Buffy items will be signed!”, and is very sweet and very pleasant.

I could not help but notice the phenomenon of which I was unquestionably a part: 85% of the women in the room were overweight and middle-aged. Okay, maybe it’s more accurate to say that 85% were overweight, 70% were both overweight and middle-aged, and the few women who were neither were also not especially attractive in any other way. In other words, no hot groupie babes.

What I’m asking is your opinions about why this should be so. I know it isn’t a matter of Spike appealing only to middle-aged fat broads, that’s ridiculous. Is it a coolness factor? Babelicious women wouldn’t be caught dead doing anything that geeky? What’s the story here?

I have heard the theory floated that these women have no man and project on to a TV character, or some such rot, but I am proof enough that this isn’t so. I have a wonderful man, who is not just a man, but a smart, kind, sexy, beautiful YOUNG man to boot. I don’t need no stinkin’ TV character to fill some empty hole. I just think he’s faboo.

In case anyone is curious, and in the interests of clarity, I did NOT ask for an autograph, because I think autographs are stupid. I was at the beginning of the line and I just looked him in the eye and told him that I didn’t want him to sign anything for me, I just wanted to thank him for doing such a wonderful job of bringing Spike to life and making me feel so much for the character. He looked taken aback for a moment, then gave me a broad smile and said “Wow…thanks, I really appreciate that.” and gave me a double-handed handshake.

Which leads me to the Part II question…what is the deal with autographs? Why? What is the point? Why is that valuable? There was one gal there, very nice lady, (middle-aged, overweight, very pretty and married) who was meeting him for the 14th time or some such, and had a room full of stuff he’d signed. She was having him sign 2 CD’s and a T-shirt and she had a photo she wanted me to have him sign because I wasn’t asking him to sign anything (she obviously missed where I was coming from with that because she asked me about 5 times…but she had a buzz on, so that’s probably why.) I asked her what the hell was the deal, and she couldn’t really answer me.

Any takers? Anyone want to try and suss out the mysteries of fandom?

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I agree that autographs are lame, and when i meet someone I respect as an artist, i tend to do exactly what you did.

working in the arts, and in sound, specifically, over the past several years, i’ve met or worked with a ton of my heroes and couldn’t imagine putting them in such an objectifying position. I’ve never figured out the appeal of autographs. what is it: so you can PROVE you were in the same room as a famous person?

who gives a F&%K, frankly. They’re people. very talented people, generally, but why get them to put thier signature on a piece of paper? I know if i was “famous” or “well respected” i would much rather deal with someone like stoid, than a line of drooling droids saying “can you make it out to Cindy?”

I’d feel dirty i think.

As far as why all the non-bombshells at the show (or in the autograph line), i haven’t a clue. Maybe there are more pear-shaped housewives with little enough self respect to wait in line to get someones handwriting on a poster than there are teeny boppers willing ot do the same, or maybe its just the area, or the club.

to each his own i guess.

Chris (who can’t imagine any reason i’d ever be famous, so its really a moot point isn’t it?)

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I actually can imagine being famous, and I actually hope to be so someday.

And the topic of autographs from the other side of the table is interesting.On the one hand, if it makes people happy, why not? But on the other, I’d be tempted to refuse and encourage whomever was asking to take a moment to enjoy meeting me (I assume they would if they are asking for an autograph) on a human level, chat a moment, then go on with their lives, having the nice memory of our encounter.

Autographs are really crass.

I hope someone can come along and explain the appeal to me.

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Y’know, I don’t understand getting movie stars or whatever to sign things, but, for whatever reason, it makes sense to have authors sign their books. It just seems like, well, the book is the final result of their efforts, and it’d be neat to have their personal touch. Of course, now that I come to say it, it seems as inane as having a band sign a CD or something, but I still like to have autographed books. Darn it.

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alright, i have to name drop for a sec to make this point, but I promise i’ll be brief about it.

I worked with Steve Martin once and he actually has business cards printed that say (paraphrasing from memory):

“This card is to certify that you have ahd a personal encounter with Mr. Steve Martin and that you found him to be every bit as pleasant, witty and charming as you might have expected.”

He doesn’t do autographs. period. but her gives those out a lot. I think its pretty hysterical, simultaneously giving the autograph seekers what they want (sort of) and skewering the whole convention of the autograph and how objectifying it is.

I like that guy.

Chris (remind me to tell ya bout the time I had my hand in charlton heston’s pants)

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I don’t understand the motivation either except, maybe, that it’s some kind of conditioned response: It’s what fans do so I’ll do it…I don’t know.

Or, maybe there’s some sense of netting your prey – some kind of weird passive-aggressive/admired from afar but now I have a piece of you…thing

But how about this for those who also don’t understand the phenomena: You’re offered two copies of the same book by an author you enjoy. One’s autographed, the other isn’t. You, of course, take the autographed book – why ?

I don’t know - something for nothing, maybe ?

  • lets assume there’s no potential worth in owning the autographed book.
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Personally, I think it is an excuse and a tool. See it gives fans (people who respect an artist, author, musician, etc.) an excuse to spend a few minutes praising said person. On the other side of the table, it gives that person an opportunity to speak with the fan exchange a few words, but also gives them an “out” or a way to limit time so everyone has an equal chance.

Having spent enough time around a few select artists viewing the autograph line from different angles, I can see this–some fans, the ones who are truly fanatical, would stay and talk forever given half an opporunity. By signing a CD, smiling and shaking hands and/or picture taking, then saying “next” because others are waiting, the artist isn’t put in the awkward position of saying, “Enough is enough, I gotta pee–go away.” Unfortunately, I’ve seen a few of those unhinged-type fans still not get a clue and have to moved along by security or management to let the star speak with others or get on his way.

Incidentally, having had the opportunity to stand in said lines a few times and meet them, I seldom ask for or seek their autographs anymore. When I have, it is more a nod to them and to justify the few moments of their time rather than for any personal sentiment or gain. Anyone who knows me a smidge, knows the ‘who’ I am speaking of too! :wink:

That said, I also know a semi-famous person, an actor/musician, who shares a mutual respect for his fans and takes the time to write a personal note and sign each CD he sends to the fans who have ordered them and with whom he has friendships.

What I guess I don’t get is why the value is so great for autographed items and who, having obtained one from an artist they so greatly admired, would sell said item anyway. The value I attach to it is “this was signed when I met X at the such-and-such concert.” I guess I’d take a picture to remember the event since as the saying goes, ‘it lasts longer,’ if cameras weren’t so frequnetly banned from events.

I would be curious to learn if autographs originated with the idea of artists (painters specifically) signing their works as proof it was theirs alone, signifying it was final and complete, ensuring authenticity, etc.

Finally, you might appreciate an actor’s opinion on the subject. Here is what Bruce Campbell (Evil Dead, Brisco Co Jr) has to say about that on his official website.

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LC

I’d obviously pick the autographed book, lagely because, yeah its neat to see, sure.

Its not so much the HAVING an autograph thats wierd, as it is the process of GETTING the autograph. It contributes (IMHO) to the dynamic of artist as god/hero/higher up whatever, that seems distasteful to me.

I respect my doctor and his work every bit as much as i respect Jeff tweedy, but i would never bum rush him in the supermarket for an autograph. I’d probably say hi, and if he didn’t seem busy, i’d thank him for his last bit of medical advice, and go about my day.

Likewise, i never see throngs of groupies waiting outside his office at the end of the day to get an autograph. (hmm maybe thats not a great example, anybody who has a prescription HAS his autograph, but you know what i mean).

Why is a rock star worth putting in a position of superiority? More so than a great High School teacher? Why would a fan contribute to a dynamic that implies such an uneven footing of worshipper and worshippee? Just say hi, shake thier hand and say thanks for the great tunes/layup/homerun/movie role.

Of course there are famous folk who get off on it, and i find most of them to be sort of offesnive in thier own right.

Chris

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Stoid, I don’t have any experience with B:TVS fandom at all, but I think I know what you mean. Judging from convention photos, etc., it seems that most of the women who show up for fan events relating to television are rarely young or slim, and even more rarely young and slim.

The size issue may be tied to the medium – people who watch a lot of TV often look like couch potatoes. As for the age issue, well, I always figured that a lot of those types of women were middle-aged housewives or women who worked part-time but were primarily supported by their husbands so they had plenty of spare time to search out and attend fan events. I could be completely wrong there, but that’s my guess.

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Hmm. I can’t speak to the overweight middle-age housewife thing, although perhaps Lamia has a good angle.

As for the autograph thing… I can’t help wondering if it’s a way for slightly-over-the-top fans to be able to communicate in a verbal, coherent way. When you’re meeting someone that you’ve admired for a long time and you’re a little on the insecure side anyway, it’s far easier to say something like “Can you make it out to X” than to eloquently discourse on the minutae of their character/music/writing.

Case in point… when I was 16, I met Peter Murphy. It wasn’t my first “celebrity” encounter, but it was my first with someone I really, really admired. I had this whole speech planned out in my head, all about how his music really spoke to me and made a difference in a very difficult time of my life, yadda yadda yadda. Then I was face-to-face with him (literally… he’s a very small man) and I was totally choked up. Couldn’t get a sound out. He was exceptionally nice, carried most of the conversation, and eventually made me feel comfortable enough that I could actually form words. :slight_smile:

Anyway, what I’m getting at is this. If the situation were differerent and I only had 2 minutes to talk to him, I never would have told him what I wanted to. Maybe the people who autograph hunt are just incapable of conveying the depth of their respect/gratitude/admiration/lust, and fall back on the cliche of “Will you sign this, please?” in order to be able to say they held a conversation with the object of their affection.

::shrug:: Then again, I could be talking totally out of my ass. :wink:

I just have one question. Ummmm… can I touch your hand? Please? ::snicker:: Oh… two questions. Can you really cut glass with his cheekbones, or is it all makeup?

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Huh, funny. I have a high school year book full of autographs from friends and teachers, and I don’t consider them “godlike” or “superior.”

Just a thought.

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** Lamia, ** you might have a point or two there. I don’t suppose we’ll ever know for sure. Unless I take a poll of Buffy fans throughout the nation and find the young slim pretty ones and askwhy they wouldn’t go.

I agree with the author deal, I’d like a signed book from an author I admired, it makes more sense to me.

** Bobkitty, ** the cheekbones are pretty spectacular. He’s amazingly handsome, but smaller than you’d expect and waaaaaay goofier. Watching him be himself proves what a really excellent actor he is, because he could not possibly be less Spike-like. He’s like an excited little puppy dog. Gorgeous puppy dog. (I’m looking at the videotape I made. Just a few minutes, but nice closeups. )

When I see someone whose work I truly admire, I’ll just do some version of what I did to JM… “I really enjoy your work.” or some such. I always get a very nice reaction. It doesn’t intrude on their time or space to listen to you say one or two sentences, and they will probably have a nicer opinion of * you. *

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fine, next time you’re at a star trek convention ask George Takei if he wants your autograph too.

That was cute and all, but YET AGAIN, i’d like to point out that i said: its not so much the HAVING an autograph as the dynamic of GETTING an autograph, which is usally (in the case of starfucking) very MUCH about hero worship and objectification.

(IMHO)

Chris