No Im more an ex dv group facilitator, cant count how many times I talked to people who ‘had to fight’ in bars who suddenly didnt after a few more months in groups. Most fights can be avoided once pride vs drunken slobs doesnt become a higher priority than safety.
In my view some of Roberts earlier actions would be likely to be viewed as escalatory. A pacifist would have no problem with looking stupid or weak if it avoids a fight escalating. And there does seem to be the assumption that Robert was going to win, which for most people isnt a given.
But the main point is Avery made the choice for him, rather than leaving it to Robert to decide how to respond to the initial attack. Maybe it would have been all curtains anyhow, but it means that Avery ultimately is making decisions on the issue for Robert the whole way through, not just at the self defense point.
Thats likely to be an ongoing problem in a relationship if the other person wants to decide how to respond to these situations himself, regardless of whether Avery feels sure he knows the most effective way to respond better than Robert.
Off-topic: If you will glance at your keyboard, you may notice a key between the semi-colon & the enter key. If you wanted to start using that a tad more regularly, it’d be great.
Some pacifists hold all violence, even in self-defense, to be categorically immoral.
Off-topic: If you will glance at your keyboard, you may notice a key between the semi-colon & the enter key. If you wanted to start using that a tad more regularly, it’d be great."
A person who use to run DV groups for male perpetrators, that was a bit jargonistic.
It would be great if you stopped being the language police too but I suspect neither of us is likely to change greatly in this area.
Robert needs to accept that Avery is not bound by his ideals, and vice versa, as necessary. The two of them should break up or stay together depending on whether they are both okay with that.
It’s not unreasonable to break up for a possibly irrational reason. Sexy love feelings aren’t rational to begin with.
No, no, no. Grammar fascists are only interested in promoting conformity and reducing ambiguity, no matter how it denies freedom of expression. Grammar nazis focus on murdering people who say Gypsy rather than Roma.
This is exactly my view of the situation as well. It’s very unfortunate for Avery, because his actions, IMHO were justified, but Robert’s fundamental beliefs are at odds with the idea that Avery has killed and Avery essentially is saying: “Yes, and in the same situation I’d do it again.” While I respect Robert’s integrity, I think it’s naively absolute, but nevertheless, he feels very, very strongly in the matter and if he’s no longer comfortable with Avery, then the damage to their relationship is unlikely to ever be repaired. He now sees Avery in a completely different light, and one that is incompatible with his firmly entrenched beliefs. His view of Avery has changed too much.
In the second hypothetical, in which the raped partner is “impure” in the eyes of the die-hard virgin (no pun intended), I have the same opinion. Alex is a supreme asshole, yes, but if he would be tormented by the idea that his partner’s rape makes her “impure” then it’s really unlikely that there can be a positive outcome in their continued relationship. While I may feel that he needs a good, swift kick in the nether regions for being SUCH an asshole, Rhonda is better off without him.
Edit: I voted Robert’s views are dumb, but understandable = dump Avery. But it won over a very narrow margin over Robert is a nitwit and Avery should dump him. I may not agree with Robert, but if he is now rattled by Avery, their relationship is doomed. Better to end it now.
I wouldn’t call that one a hypothetical. There’s no question that Alex is an asshole, though one might argue over whether Rhonda is justified is simply kicking him in the balls, or whether justice also requires that she punch him in the kidneys as well.
I thought it was hypothetical only because they are fictitious and you don’t actually know an Alex and Rhonda. If you DO actually know these two people, then I would consider it a personal favour if you kicked Alex in the balls twice (one kick per ball) while saying “Crayons thinks you’re an asshole. Crayons thinks you’re an asshole.” Kidney punch would be a bonus and I’d be willing to pay a premium.
But either way, Alex is too fucked up to be in a healthy relationship. There is no way at all that someone with those beliefs can be good for Rhonda. And it’s definitely better that the asshole dump her. Can you imagine being married to a guy who thinks of you like that? “I love you. I’d love you more if you hadn’t been attacked.”
I was torn between “screw Robert he’s a nit wit” and “other”. I went with other, even though I think Robert is a nitwit.
What would have happened if Avery had just stood there and let the one oaf beat Robert to death? Is that what Robert would have wanted? He’d rather be dead or severely injured than have a boyfriend fight to defend him? I don’t get it.