They call it a “fundy abortion.”
Do Not Taunt still has not provided the ORIGINAL birth certificates of the Palin babies as I requested. Therefore, we should operate under the assumption that the timeline he fabricated is entirely inaccurate and false.
This doesn’t follow.
To this, you respond to me, saying, in effect, “No, you can’t, but not because of blind partisanship, but because you don’t have a habit of making direct accusations.”
How does this follow? If I do accuse someone of blind partisanship, I have made a direct accusation. Yes?
In other words, I was asking if I suffered undr the burden of being unable to accuse someone of blind partisanship by virture of being a blind partisan myself. Your response has nothing to do with that question.
I don’t have a link. The thread I’m thinkig of involved some idiot claiming his or her local paper had “zero, repeat zero” job openings for weeks and weeks, and when I chellanged that statement there was a chorus of protest for beating up the poor person, culminating in detailed rebuttals being dismissed with the “get a life” sentiment. Not sure what serach terms might find it, but it certainly existed.
And her own physician said it wasn’t. I don’t even know “Dr J’s” board reputation. I’d have been swayed by Qadop, whose bona fides are well-established here. But intending nopersonal disrespect to “Dr J,” I don’t believe I’m going to assume he’s a licensed physician based on the few posts he’s made that I’m aware of.
Cite that her own doctor told her it wasn’t irresponsible?
No responsible physician would tell a 9 months pregnant woman leaking amniotic fluid to get on a plane and fly from Texas to Alaska. No doctor DID tell her to do that.
This is Palin, though. She’s not exactly the sharpnest knife in the drawer.
Psst… they don’t call it leaking when a person does it- it’s discharging.
Actually, come to think of it, Palin probably does leak pretty often.
Maternal age influences the chances of conceiving a baby with Down syndrome. At maternal age 20 to 24, the probability is one in 1562; at age 35 to 39 the probability is one in 214, and above age 45 the probability is one in 19.[51] Although the probability increases with maternal age, 80% of children with Down syndrome are born to women under the age of 35,[52] reflecting the overall fertility of that age group. Recent data also suggest that paternal age, especially beyond 42,[53] also increases the risk of Down Syndrome manifesting in pregnancies in older mothers.[54]
(And before anyone points it out, note that when it says that that the majority of children with Downs ARE born to younger mothers, it’s only because they tend to be more fertile.)
So Bristol’s chances were one in 1562.
Considering what a ruthless bitch Palin comes off as, I wouldn’t be surprised if she risked losing a pregnancy to win a nomination/election.
Do we have anything other than Palin’s own word that she had permission from her doctor? Because I don’t believe it. Every other doctor I’ve heard from (including my wife’s own OB/Gyn), has told me that they would never tell a woman to get on a cross continetal flight under those circumstances.
Palin’s doctor refused to confirm or deny it, citing patient confidentiality (which Palin could have waived, obviously). Every expert in the field, every medical school professor or practicing OB/GYN or any woman who has had an amniotic sac rupture has said exactly the same thing, that either Palin or her doctor was nuts.
Considering Palin’s record for lying, I see no reason to give her any benefit of the doubt.
Just dropped by out of curiosity and was surprised by the topic. Didn’t Britol’s own pregnancy dispel the rumors of Trig being her child?
I am a licensed physician, though of course I’m not Palin’s physician and I’m not an obstetrician. My comments were based more on discussions with my friends who are obstetricians and some reading in various medical sources than my own expertise, so I wouldn’t take my word for it.
My sources were unequivocal, though–it is terribly irresponsible for a woman 8 1/2 months into a high-risk pregnancy to fly at all, much less with ruptured membranes.
I think the doctor “allowed” her to fly back, in the sense that she couldn’t do anything to stop her. As I know all too well, there’s not really anything I can do to stop patients from doing stupid things. All the doctor could really do is document that she has informed the patient of the dangers of her actions and strongly counseled against it. Most airlines would require a note from the doctor to allow her to fly (though they probably wouldn’t even accept that), but if she was flying privately then the doctor’s opinion probably never entered into it.
It’s a (sort of) joke. You asked “can I” make a direct accusation, which literally means “do I possess the ability to”. I know that you meant “may I” and that you are capable of making a direct accusation. It was a semi-humorous way to make my point that you rarely make direct accusations. Your accusations are normally oblique and aimed at non-specific people.
Are you talking about this thread? I pit Poverty and the current economic crisis - The BBQ Pit - Straight Dope Message Board
If so, I don’t see anyone having a problem with your method of making your point. Rather, the objections seem to be aimed at the point you were making.
Sounds like what you’re demanding is a statement from her physician, completely in violation of all medical ethics and probably all legal strictures, explicitly telling the press his confidential medical advice to his patient. Anything short of that wouldnt satisfy you, Bricker, is that correct?
It sounds to me as if Palin paraphrased his okay (which as Dr J has subsequently said was given reluctantly and only in response to a fait accompli) and you’re taking it as affirmative medical advice. If she said, “You shouldn’t fly under these conditions, Sarah–I don’t care if you’re willing to, it just isn’t smart, and I advise against it. No, it probably won’t kill you or the baby but I–well, I can’t stop you, but I advise stongly against it–any obstetician would. It’s just not smart, Sarah–well, okay, you’re going to do what you want to do” which Palin paraphrased as “I had my doctor’s permission.”
You’re buying that irresponsible interpretation out of sheer partisanship, but those of us who are uncommitted to Palin’s commitment to honesty see it otherwise. Far otherwise. This casuistic twisting of facts (like the medicial advice of most obstetricians) is just painting you as a partisan defender of Palin, right or wrong, drunk or sober.
Here is an article from the Anchorage Daily News about Trig’s birth. In it, Palin’s doctor is quoted as saying, “I don’t think it was unreasonable for her to continue to travel back.” Palin was not in active labor, and in fact had to be induced when she got back to Alaska.
For another perspective, in the same article, another doctor is quoted as saying that, once your water breaks, you should go to the hospital because of the risk of infection (this jibes with what I’ve been told by my OB as well). The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists advises against flying after 36 weeks. However, Todd is quoted as saying, “You can’t have a fish picker from Texas” deliver our baby.
You can draw your own conclusions from this information.
What’s a fish picker?
It’s kind of like a henfur.
Well, considering I have had harsh words for Palin on other issues, and I think she’s an idiot incapable of thinking on her feet and delivering any kind of coherent responses under pressure, I’m frankly baffled that you’d consider my defense of her on this issue partisan.
In fact, I can’t think of too many other people on this board who as routinely as I do defend or attack based on the issue, and not the person. I’ve defended Ted Kennedy, Barack Obama, Al Franken, Patrick Kennedy, Nancy Pelosi, and Al Gore when they’ve been unfairly attacked, just to pick some examples off the top of my head. I doubt you could point to a similar list of folks on the right you’ve gone to bat for. Or can you?
Now, to the specifics here.
Not remotely true. I balked at accepting Doctor J’s analysis on the basis that I was generally unfamiliar with him as a poster. I explicitly said, in fact, that I’d take Qadop’s analysis, because I WAS familiar with him. So, given that I said I’d take Qadop’s word for it, how do you jump to this bizarre idea that I’m insisting on a statement from her physician, and nothing short of that will do?
The problem with this theory is that it has zero evidence supporting it. You’re basically saying, “I think Palin is a liar, so I’ll make up a story that I think happened.”
Now, to my knowledge, there is no canon of medical ethics that would compel Dr. Baldwin-Johnson to make this statement. If Palin flew against her advice and she felt the decision was unreasonable, I can imagine that she might feel constrained to stay silent rather than reveal her specific medical advice to her patient. But under what compulsion might she have been moved to issue the statement that she felt the flight was not unreasonable?
Even if you automatically believe Palin is a liar in everything she says, we now have her doctor saying she felt the decision was not unreasonable. Is Palin’s doctor ALSO a liar?