I guess I’m mainly thinking about the Obama-was-born-in-Kenya issue rather than the Obama-is-a-secret-Muslim issue, but to me there is nothing wrong with asking questions and discussing topics. To me, there are two things one can do in a situation like that which are truly deserving of condemnation:
(1) willfully disregard facts that prove the rumor false. This is what the birthers are doing, or anyone who is continuing to claim that Trig Palin is Sarah’s grandson rather than son.
(2) Phrase statements so that reporting about the existence of the rumor implies the potential truth of the rumor. That is, using phrases like “questions persist…”. If someone came onto the SDMB and said “hey, I heard that Obama is secretly a Muslim. Is this true?”, and appeared to be sincerely unaware of the facts of the situation, I strongly suspect that most dopers would respond in a basically calm and rational fashion. On the other hand, someone who was discussing Obama in some other context and randomly threw in a “and of course, controversy continues to surround his Muslim roots” or “while he has claimed…” or something weaselly like that would be lambasted, and rightfully so.
Note that none of those things are just discussing a rumor, even though discussing it certainly at times spreads it. Someone reads a report that Palin is getting divorced, which is far from prima facie ridiculous. So they discuss it on the SDMB. What else are they going to do? Refuse to acknowledge it’s existence until it’s confirmed or denied 100%? People like gossiping about famous people, and doing so is not in and of itself a sin.
One other thing: much as I respect you as a poster and value your input to the SDMB in general, I think arguments like the one you’re making here are, quite frankly, pretty chickenshit. You aren’t saying “hey, you, poster Bob, you said something here and then something else here. They disagree. I call you out for being a hypocrite”. Instead you’re saying “hey, something happened, and then some people responded in a way that was kind of like this. But a while ago, something else (which may or may not really be comparable) happened, and some people (who may or may not be the same people) responded (without specifying whether you’re talking about responding to the incident itself, or to SDMB posts about it, or what) in a certain way. And you all (not specifying who, so no one can really respond) are hypocrites”.
Basically, it’s a not-quite-as-bad form of this, which is one of my prime SDMB pet peeves.
It’s not unique to Shodan though. The general term is “False equivalence”.
Oddly, I first heard that expression from a conservative who decried liberals who drew parallels between the US and Soviet Union. I think he had a point. I also think that liberalism had a wacko fringe in the 1970s which has been marginalized to near extinction largely due to self-regulation by the center-left. Circular firing squads apparently have their advantages.
Reality-based conservatives would be wise to emulate them. But they are few in number.
I’m probably going to regret asking, but: Obama’s Hawaii birth certificate is in the public domain. What’s the comparable evidence about the relationship between Trig and Sarah Palin? Seriously - I must have missed the day when this was resolved so definitively.
I guess one could ask whether we have proof of the timing of Bristol Palin’s pregnancy.
(I don’t know if that’s been verified or not, and I don’t care. Hell, even though I’m not a pro-lifer, I regard the rumors of Sarah Palin’s not really being Trig’s mother as exculpatory of Palin’s conduct on the day of Trig’s birth, rather than being any sort of smear.)
Actually, there has never been an instance in which I responded to accusations that Bush started a war by saying “Clinton got a blow job”.
On the other hand, I have taken things out of a rat trap that were smarter than you, gonzomax, so even if someone reads you my post you won’t understand it.
Is this like the royal ‘we’ or something? Because you’re the idiot here, Sam.
You’re making a bullshit accusation without any evidence, that is oddly coincidental with the line the wingnuts have been peddling about how the evil libruls launched a smear campaign against Palin.
But nobody of any note on the left has ever bothered to do so. She self-smears, and does so with such great effectiveness that we didn’t have to do anything but watch and quote. Take, for instance, her speeches announcing her retirement as governor - both the speech announcing her intent to step down, and the speech she made on the day she stepped down. Were they liberal smears? You wish, friend. Those were the real Palin.
Sam, she really is an idiot. And so are you, if you believe she’s been the victim of some lefty smear campaign, either here on the SDMB, or in the wider world.
Here - the OP opens a discussion about a current Supreme Court nominee, and the partisan opposition from Republican senators, characterizing the process as ridiculous. Rather than enter in to actual debate, you instead go off on how Democratic senators have opposed past nominees for political reasons, and thus they are getting what they deserve. It’s not like you’re actually defending anyone or taking up any particular position, just driving by with a few comments about how Dems did it before.
Generally -
OP: Some Republicans are doing X, here are my thoughts on the matter…
Shodan: Some democrats did X before.
This. If anything, as I noted at the time, a coverup like that had a long tradition–Bobby Darin didn’t learn that his “sister” was his mother until he was an adult. By hoping that she did not actually act in a criminally-irresponsible manner, but instead acted like a mother concerned with her daughter’s reputation and future marriage prospects, we tossed her a lifeline.
So we were wrong. She really was that irresponsible, self-centered, and capricious. We didn’t know her yet and gave her the benefit of a doubt.
ETA: We shan’t do that again.
Okay, we’re liberals who have reached middle age and are still convinced that people are fundamentally good, no matter how many times they screw us. We’ll do it again.
Now that it’s been pointed out to me, we have two dates: the birthdays of Trig (4/17/08) and Tripp (12/29/08) Palin, which are only 8 1/2 months apart. So, I think it’s safe to move this from unlikely to really freakin’ unlikely. Good enough for me. And thanks everybody who responded.
It’ll be really freaking unlikely when you provide us with the ORIGINAL long-form birth certificates of both Trig and Trip. Until then I can only assume those are conveniently fake birthdays.
