Well, he did get a shroud named after him.
Ow! Stop hitting me! <runs away>
Well, he did get a shroud named after him.
Ow! Stop hitting me! <runs away>
The Rohirrim.
Absolutely. (Although he did kill Glaurung, who was one of the greatest threats to the elves.) But he sort of embodies, in one person, the worst things that Morgoth ever did (since Morgoth set out to screw with his life just to torture Hurin). Also, IMO, the downfall of the elves of Beleriand pivots on him–since destroying him, and forcing Hurin to watch and twisting the info. so it threw the elves in the worst light, led to the revelation of Gondolin’s location.
And yet in Bree there was talk of overcrowding and displacement by people fleeing the Troubles Down South. This despite the availability of plenty of empty land to the West and the fact that Morder’s assault on Easter Gondor–a long way away–had only just begun.
Rarely mentioned indeed. I’d say it–and the Elves’ overall need for sustenance–are largely sidestepped (can they starve to death?).
The Woodland Elves don’t appear to have produced much that could be traded with Laketown for food. And it’s foolish for Elf and Dwarf realms to rely on vulnerable outside peoples for their food supply (during the War of the Elves and Sauron, “the gates of Moria were shut”). For that matter, where did the orcs of the Misty Mountains get their food?
Orcs would eat almost anything and I gather anyone. They had scavenging parties on regular basis and probably some sort of cave farming.
Dwarves almost always relied of trade and their goods were very valuable. However, the had cram that would last for months if not years and I am sure salted meats that would also last for a very long time. I imagine they had large stores of goods put of for sieges.
The Elves of Mirkwood remains a mystery, they seem to endure on Nuts & Berries, Venison and what they could trade for. Again, I have to assume to mined valuable ore and made goods for trade to the humans.
Lothlorien apparently grew enough food. No details, but the Ladies magic was a very strong help in feeding the people of Lothlorien. Think of Sam’s gift.
Jim
Sam was given some soil to use in his garden, and was told that his garden would be quite the envy in the Shire (despite the Shire already being described as a fertile place). I forget if he got this soil in Lothlorien, or Rivendell.
One would presume the elves grew more than flowers…
They also made Lamdas bread, presumadely from (dried) fruit, grains, or nuts grown in this super soil, not imported. One serving of this bread was supposed to be sufficient to sustain a person for a day, with that person being able to engage in moderate to heavy work activity.
Whatever stood still long enough to gnaw on. “Looks like meat’s back on the menu, boys…”
It varied over time. The first Elves were much taller and stronger than any man that ever lived. They referred to humans as “The Sickly Ones” and the greatest of human warriors humans of the First Age, at the height if their power, were described as approaching the Elves in height and strength. But the Elves faded over time, and by the time of LOTR most were only a shadow of the great Elves of the First Age. Men also declined, but those of Numerorean stock declined less relatively than the Elves, and Aragorn was described as being the equal even of the great Human heroes of the First Age.
Dwarves were another matter. They were described as being able to carry great loads for their size, but were never described as being especially strong. So they were probably about equivalent to men in terms of strength
At the time of LOTR in terms of strength the greatest elves such as Glorfindel or Elrond were probably the strongest physically, followed closely by Numenoreans such as Aragorn, then came the younger Elves such as Legolas followed by normal Men and Dwarves and the Hobbits in last place. Abilty to use a sword would follow the same pattern, but it appears that this ability also depended on nobility, with great heroes such as Eomer or Aragorn being essentially untouchable by normal enemies due to their nobility.
There is no average because orcs were bred for different purposes. The largest of the fighting orcs were “almost man high” and decribed as being much taller than dwarves or hobbits, so tall they had to travel stooped over in tunnels that would allow a Hobbit to jump and allow dwarves to run, so they were probably 5’6 on average.
Then there were the other orcs that the fighters referred to as slaves and they were tiny, so small that a hobbit could easily pass himself off as one just by changing clothes. Since large Hobbits were described as looking like 10 year old boys in height they were probably 3- 4 feet tall.
But Middle Earth wasn’t exactly Medieval Europe, no matter how closely it resembled it. After the sinking of Numenor various mariners circumnavigated the globe in an attempt to relocate Valinor. There was no unknown and unexplored New World in Middle Earth.
It varied over time. The first Elves were much taller and stronger than any man that ever lived. They referred to humans as “The Sickly Ones” and the greatest of human warriors humans of the First Age, at the height if their power, were described as approaching the Elves in height and strength. But the Elves faded over time, and by the time of LOTR most were only a shadow of the great Elves of the First Age. Men also declined, but those of Numerorean stock declined less relatively than the Elves, and Aragorn was described as being the equal even of the great Human heroes of the First Age.
Dwarves were another matter. They were described as being able to carry great loads for their size, but were never described as being especially strong. So they were probably about equivalent to men in terms of strength
At the time of LOTR in terms of strength the greatest elves such as Glorfindel or Elrond were probably the strongest physically, followed closely by Numenoreans such as Aragorn, then came the younger Elves such as Legolas followed by normal Men and Dwarves and the Hobbits in last place. Abilty to use a sword would follow the same pattern, but it appears that this ability also depended on nobility, with great heroes such as Eomer or Aragorn being essentially untouchable by normal enemies due to their nobility.
There is no average because orcs were bred for different purposes. The largest of the fighting orcs were “almost man high” and decribed as being much taller than dwarves or hobbits, so tall they had to travel stooped over in tunnels that would allow a Hobbit to jump and allow dwarves to run, so they were probably 5’6 on average. They were immensely strong for their height, one casually picked up a Hobbit under each arm and ran several hundred yards. Since Hobbits were fat for their height that means these orcs could casually lift at least a 70kg load and run with it. Even allowing that these were probably Sauron’s elite troops that makes them stronger than your average US marine, suggesting that on average the fighting orcs were stronger than men.
Then there were the other orcs that the fighters referred to as slaves and they were tiny, so small that a hobbit could easily pass himself off as one just by changing clothes. Since large Hobbits were described as looking like 10 year old boys in height they were probably 3- 4 feet tall.
But Middle Earth wasn’t exactly Medieval Europe, no matter how closely it resembled it. After the sinking of Numenor various mariners circumnavigated the globe in an attempt to relocate Valinor. There was no unknown and unexplored New World in Middle Earth.
[a] Lots.
** Even a bit more than that, I presume.
[c] And funny you should ask: What was so great about Narsil/Anduril? - Cafe Society - Straight Dope Message Board
Probably the latter. See this article, part of a great, well-annotated LOTR FAQ site: http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm#Q1-BeatSauron
** Parts of LOTR lore that you don’t really get?**
Why people are so fascinated by any of it.
Now see, this is a perfect example answer for this thread:
[clockmaking]The choice, of course, isn’t between a spring and a pendulum. A pendulum is not a source of motive power, it is a regulator, and you can certainly have a pendulum in a mantelpiece clock; we had such a clock when I was a boy, and my father still has it. The choice is between (a) a pendulum or a balance-wheel as regulator, and (b) a spring or a set of weights as motive power.
Usually where you have clock-weights you have a pendulum as well, since the weights already constrain you to have a long case, or at least a wall-mounting like your typical cuckoo clock. Either way, you wind it up either by tensioning the mainspring or hoisting the weights. You adjust its timekeeping either by shortening/lengthening the pendulum or adjusting the tension of the hairspring coupled to the balance-wheel.[/clockmaking]
There has to be one in every thread, doesn’t there?
One would have expected Bilbo’s clock to have evolved from tower clocks, yet the lack of “public” clocks in Hobbiton, or even Bree, is somewhat conspicuous. I suppose hobbits lived in underground burrows and had no high structures similar to churches for them to have developed in - as well as no need for ecclesiastical timekeeping - and that might also explain the Dwarves’ lack of timekeeping technology {although one would have thought that dark sunless caverns would have needed some form of clocks}. As for the Elves, well, they were essentially timeless {and, as Shakespeare pointed out, “There are no clocks in the forest”}, so that only really leaves Gondor: certainly they had lofty public buildings, and if not a need for regular prayers, certainly a well-regulated bureaucratic and military society which would seem to necessitate punctuality. They seem the most likely candidates to have constructed clocks, possibly with Dwarven metalworking assistance - but where were the clocks in Gondor?
What I don’t quite get was why Isildur’s death, and the losing of the Ring, was universally considered a disaster. If Isildur was that powerful, and now possessed the ring, wasn’t he poised to become a tyrant as powerful at least as Ar-Pharazôn, if not the Dark Lord himself?
A friend and I even speculated for a while that the Elves might have secretly had Isildur whacked, or at least took their time coming to his rescue.
Another thing, not an inconsistency but still a mystery: was Sauron lying when he told Ar-Pharazôn that Melkor could be brought back, and ought to be worshipped over Eru? Was Sauron still in Melkor’s thrall then, or did he just seize on this as a convenient story to lead the Numenoreans astray?
But Sauron clearly considered Aragorn a threat, especially after the battle of the Pellenor.
I guess he worried about the Ar-Pharazon scenario, or the possibility that Gandalf would take the Ring from Aragorn and thereby replace Sauron.
The FAQ makes it clear though that Tolkien thought that it was only because of the deceits of the Ring that Galadriel thought she herself could replace Sauron, so that pretty much answers my question. Thanks for the link.
Sauron is, was, and always will be in Melkor’s thrall. Of course that doesn’t mean Sauron wasn’t lying, that’s what he does.
You know how you can tell when Sauron’s lying? If his lips are moving.
Sauron’s form in the late Third Age was represented differently in the movies than in the books. In the books he is symbolized by an eye but it is pretty clear that he isn’t ONLY an eye (Gollum hints he has hands, one of which only has four fingers). There aren’t any detailed descriptions of his appearance at that point in history in the books by I always pictured him sort of along the lines of the monstrous black figure seen in the prologue of the FOTR movie.
Maybe, but I for one believe there was a clockmaker.
But was it a blind clockmaker?
I am going to treat this as a serious question, in hopes that it was.
The books are the foundation of Fantasy being popular. All books in Fantasy are compared to Tolkien. Much like any dramatic play being compared to the Bard’s work {High-Brow} or a Sitcom to I love Lucy {Low-Brow}.
The books have poetry and song in them, the world is mapped out with a detailed and mostly consistent creation myth. Most characters have an origin, family and homeland that we know about. They have backgrounds. Despite nitpicks the quest to destroy the Ring follows a logical flow. There are “Wizards” and “Action Heroes” and yet it is the small and the weak that conquer the great evil. Even this only worked as the main character had shown pity and compassion for the suffering of another and in the end when he failed, the creature he took pity on completed the mission. (Of course that was not Gollum’s intent.)
The books have great battles, despair, loss, corruption and redemption. As the world is constructed in more detail than almost any other fantasy world, there are many things to discuss and delve into for conversation and debate. You should be able to see that from just this thread.
You find the influence of Middle Earth and its races in almost every fantasy base game as most are based on Dungeons and Dragons. D&D took much inspiration of Middle Earth.
There is more, but I hope that is a good start to why people are so fascinated by any of it.
The men would not realize that Isildur was soon to be corrupted beyond redemption. In fact, few but Elrond would know such. He was a great leader, the hero that apparently slew Sauron. He was well loved, and respected. If Elrond had anything to do with his death, it would have been earlier and in an attempt to seize the ring and march in back to Mt Doom.
Sauron might have believed that if the Valar could be overthrown, Melkor could be released. However, he was probably just planning to get the Valar to do his dirty work and destroy Númenor. The Valar’s isolationist policies stood nobody well in the end.
Hey, that’s GD fodder, in fact there is an active thread on it.