And Lord Dunsany is what, chopped liver?
I would place Spencer’s Faerie Queen and the Arthurian tales far above Lord Dunsany. That is fairly obscure except among people that read a lot of fantasy. Might as well mention The Worm Ouroboros or Erewhon.
I think Tolkien stands as the most famous and most well developed older Fantasy.
Jim
Hmph.
The pot calls the kettle black.
Well, yes of course.
Says the man with the Pulp Fiction reference in his location. Sheesh.
The question was, “What part of the lore don’t you get,” not “what is it about the book you don’t get.”
By the time of LOTR, most of the Elves were tired. You’re right in connecting “the passion (and optimism) of youth” to the humans.
Read The Silmarillion to learn about the centuries of Elvish exploration & warfare. Or poke around The Encyclopedia of Arda. It’s no wonder that the Elves of the Late Third Age were ready to Head West–or just mellow out in the forest until they faded away.
I wonder if JRRT was inspired by the way Christianity pushed out the old celtic gods? I’ve heard a story of how one old mythic hero returned to Ireland after 900 years to find St. Patrick waiting for him on the beach. Pat warned him not to return or he would suffer consequences. The hero scoffed, got off his horse and then died as all 900 years of age caught up to him. It seems like the elves are mirroring the old mythos going “across the sea” while the humans are the young, vital Christian faith taking over.
You’re thinking of Oisín, I believe. I think it’s fairly evident that Tir na nÓg and the Undying Lands are pretty much the same.
We should note that Sauron would not have been “scared” of anyone in the sense of “this person can do me irreparable harm that will hurt a lot.” Sauron can’t be hurt in that sense by anyone other than Eru, or, possibly, a vala. But Sauron has plans, man, and those plans can take a terrific beating if he ends up confronted by someone powerful enough with the Ring and the knowledge of how to use it. Trouble is, other than Saruman and Gandalf, (and one presumes, Radaghast and the other two maia who went East), there aren’t people who truly could triumph in that fight using the Ring.
Still, that doesn’t mean that Aragorn, with proper preparation, couldn’t use the Ring to temporarily disrupt Sauron’s plans significantly. Sauron would have to take sufficient measures to eventually overcome Aragorn. It’s this sort of thing that he “fears”.
Now, if Arrowroot son of Arrowshirt had appeared with the ring…
Question: is there more of Aragorn and Arwen in the Silmarillion? (I always secretly root for Eowyn to win Aragorn–yeah, I know she and Faramir are great together, but I have never warmed up to Arwen–she seems like a miss priss to me. The movies didn’t help that–Viggo was so good and then there was Liv. Beautiful, and gorgeously dressed, but vapid and empty (although her look/glare at Aragorn as the fellowhsip leaves does carry weight). Frankly, she is so little seen in the books that it’s easy to forget her. Hard to believe they have one of those Immortal Loves.
Of maybe I say this because I’m more like Eowyn than Arwen and Viggo is hot (oops, I mean Aragorn of course! 
).
I have always considered the elves in LOTR to be vegetarian for some reason–something about their demeanor of not hurting the land and creatures etc. The Hobbit elves I consider to be more traditional fairy creatures. I see the LOTR ones as more mystical, otherwordly than the Hobbit ones.
Most of the little we know about Arwen is in the Appendix of the Return of the King. She is Elrond’s only daughter and her Mom was Galadriel’s daughter, so her heritage is very high indeed.
The movie version should be completely ignored, the character has nothing to do with Arwen.
Eowyn did quite well with Prince Faramir, she was probably better off. She never really loved Aragorn anyway, she only loved what he represented. With Faramir she finally fell in love with the person and not just a concept.
Aragorn’s heart was long gone. He was around 80 at the time of the great events and had been in love with Arwen for nearly 60 years. Worse, apparently an 80 year old virgin.*
Jim
- Anyone still wonder why he fought so well?
Is that an Anduril in your pocket?
True, but he’s generally filled with fear, I think. I doubt that particular pathology of wearing the ring is limited only to mortals–I’m guessing Sauron is very paranoid and nervous. Also, let’s not forget that Beren and Luthien and Haun smacked him down pretty hard in the First Age, and he has had Eru himself disembody him once for fiddling around in the affairs of mortals. That’s got to make you nervous.
As for vegan elves–that seems unlikely, at least in the old days, since many elves were renowned hunters. Maybe in the Third Age they have less need for such sustenance, and prefer more vegetables.
What part about the lore don’t I get? That’s a challenging question, since I have been vacationing in Middle-earth since 1969. Nothing comes to mind that I’m at odds with. But I can tell you how I’ve resolved some of the issues that have come up in this thread.
As I understand the Prologue to LotR, Professor Tolkien was a philologist who happened upon a copy (of a copy of a copy, etc.) of the Red Book and other documents from the Third Age. After translating and transliterating these texts, he first wrote a long fairy-tale based on Bilbo’s diary and then a long romance based on Frodo’s diary.
The Professor could have rendered these materials into historical novels or produced a scholarly translation, but for his own reasons he chose otherwise. I like to think it was Eru’s will. Eru chose Tolkien for this task. As fiction no one would take the Professor’s hints that hobbits are still extant seriously, while the moral lessons inherent in the story of the War of the Rings might be adequately conveyed.
Probably the Red Book did not actually mention clocks, potatoes, or umbrellas. Most likely they were an authorial insertion. Doubtlessly the historical Aragorn was not a virgin when he married Arwen, but fairy-tales and romances have certain conventions.
History is not what happened. History is how we remember what happened. If we remember history through fairy-tales or romances, all manner of inconsistencies are bound to occur.
In the Prologue, Tolkien asserts that pipe-weed was probably a variety of Nicotiana. However, maybe the historical pipe-weed was in fact a variety of cannabis and Tolkien the translator and redactor was either mistaken or deliberate about representing it as tobacco. We don’t know.
NJ_Kef withdraws to enjoy some pipe-weed sans smoke rings. Does it dull the mind as Saruman suggested? In Gandalf’s own words, “You would not wonder, if you used this herb yourself. You might find that smoke blown out cleared your mind of shadows within. Anyway, it gives patience to listen to error without anger.” [Unfinished Tales, “The Hunt for the Ring”]