PASSIONS: Why is this election so different?

Great Debates
1

I’ve usually been able to smile and nod and agree to disagree when arguing politics, but I’ve had moments in this election when I had to literally leave a room or when I had to hold my jaws shut until my teeth hurt because if I’d opened my mouth it would have started with a “While I respect your right to feel that way…” and ended with “…brainless fucking clump that your mother should have yanked out with a needle hook and that goes double for your candidate!” Now, if it were just me I would honestly think my “happy pills” had stopped working, that I was decompensating, or that I’m just getting grumpier as I age, but I am positive that it’s NOT just me. It’s people on both sides of the spectrum and even people who I had no idea were passionate about politics who have been nearly at each other’s throats.

It wasn’t like this four years ago, it wasn’t even this heated 8 years ago during the Florida dimpled chad catastrophe. It’s damned near like the country is on the verge of Civil War.

True, there’s a war on, a very controversial one, but while I can’t remember Vietnam Iraq is no more controversial and nowhere near as bloody. Wise and Venerable Doper Elders: Was there this much tension or this many “usually calm people losing their shit” in the Nixon/McGovern or Kennedy/Nixon elections?

What do you account for the surging animosities twixt Camp Obama and Camp McCain?

2

Should add another question:

Have your passions (whatever side you’re on) been more than usual this time? Or the political passions of those around you?

I’ve wondered if being a liberal in a conservative state was jaundicing me, but it seems to carry over onto message boards and on TV, especially the “I’m mad as hell and I’m not going to take this anymore” vibe from the Left.

3

For the first time in 12 years, we have two very charismatic participants - Obama and Palin. The Obama - Clinton fight has done a lot to energise the Democrats, and it looks like Palin - and especially the smear attacks on her by the Democrats - are doing the same for the Republicans (look at Bricker’s Pit thread) after the snooze-fest of their Primaries. Hark back to 2000: the Democrats had Gore. In 2004 they had Kerry. Neither were inspiring. Obama is something else. He has something of the air of JFK. I’ve been less than impressed with Biden. His recent comments will only energise the Republican base further and are a bad and divisive precedent: in a democracy you do not want to fear losing power.

4

I dunno, I was SCREAMING for much of 2004. I still think Bush should have been impeached over Gitmo, still want him to be impeached, stripped of his pension & SS guard, & stuck in a prison for ten years.

Alberto Gonzales too.

And Yoo; & you, & you, for not even acknowledging that violating the Geneva Convention is a crime.

[del]Yeah, when I think about it–fuck voting, I’m just gonna nuke America.[/del]

5

Just read Quartz’s link. Really? Really really? This is a big reason I’m voting Democrat. If Obama says no, sorry Malia & Sasha, Daddy has to go away. I will frame him for some horrible crime, force him to resign, to get Biden & a vindictive DoJ after Bushco.

6

I think the viability of two worthy candidates for the Dem nomination was a huge part of it. 2004— Hillary would have tap danced backwards into the White House- it’ll be the regret of her life that she didn’t run 4 years earlier.

I’d have gladly voted for her and borne her a son, and was thrilled when she was running in 2008— but, one taste of the Nutella and the plain white bread is a thing of the past. :smiley: The charisma, the eloquence, the brilliance, and above all the fact he ACTUALLY TALKS TO PEOPLE INTELLIGENTLY… goddamn… that was new. The speech about race was what completely clinched it, I had NEVER heard a speech from a politician that was that honest, insightful… anyway, you know what he said.

However, had Hillary won the nomination, though I was super frustrated with her by that point, I’d have instantly closed ranks, locked shields, donated money, and worked on her behalf, for she was still, warts and all (and she’s not all warts) a viable candidate. (Her main drawback to me is the baggage- she’s just too divisive, she and her husband were so hated by so many Pubs that any thought of them ending the partisanship that’s killing us was completely ludicrous.)
HOWEVER, in 2004… all I could think of was "Crap! Hundreds of Democrats in Congress, the Senate, governors, state legislatures, mayors… and that’s the best they could field? I just could not get excited over John Kerry; he seemed distant, insincere, waaaay too pie-in-the-sky liberal, he had no ability to convert the fencers. That he got 48% of the vote (or whatever it was) is a testament to the hatred for Bush, and I voted for him of course, but I just could not get enthused. (And when he tried plain folks appeal… damn I cringed.)

So the candidate himself is definitely a part. The port’s within sight, you can smell the food cooking in the houses on the shore, but… there’s the hulking ship blocking the entrance flying the colors you’ve come to loathe.

And I like the name Obama. Just kind of catchy.

7

Think this one through. Look at the long term. Do you really want an incoming Republican administration in 2017 to prosecute Obama for something? Why stand for President if you’re going to be prosecuted at the end of it? A cornerstone of democracy is that you can safely leave power. If you undermine that then you’ll rapidly have a dictatorship.

8

This is the 12th election that I remember quite well and I believe that this one has more bitterness and animosity than the other 11 put together. Personally, I think Bush has done more to divide the nation than slavery. People either think he’s the incarnation of evil or he’s on a mission straight from God Himself. Now half the public think it’s a battle to keep the White House from falling into the hands of godless Democrats or to snatch it from the clutches of Satan.

9

Well, it’s not so passionate for me, as I indicated in my (very weak) Pit thread where I asked how some of the Obama-supporters who utterly despise Bush/Reps/Conservatives/ism would cope in the (still remote but not imposssible) event of a McCain/Palin victory.

For those on the Obama/Dem/Liberal side, there was a choice between two fervent attractive passionate historical front-runners, Hillary & Barack. Both of them were targets of attacks, where the slimy ones seemed much more frequent that the solid ones. And a victory against Bush & Pals seemed so inevitable and so right. The tide of history was turning and the wave of change was sure to come.

But now, the turn is slow and the wave is not as large or swift as was hoped and emotions are flaring. Especially as on my side, there is now more than just as glimmer of hope, fired up by the worst thing possible- a hot religious right-wing woman.

10

Obama is just such a goddamn breath of fresh air and I can’t for the life of me see how anyone is falling for the same ol’, same ol’ that has run this nation off the track. McCain hasn’t offered up anything new. He’s still playing the fear card with regard to 9/11. He’s putting “country” before all. But there’s country and there’s country and “my country right or wrong” isn’t how I define it.

There are millions of people in this country who have been pushed aside and I don’t see how a guy who thinks you aren’t rich until you have $5 million dollars is going to pull the middle and lower class to his bosom and make it all ok.

Obama inspires people to get involved. I’m a big fan of grass roots efforts to make our world better. He makes people think that individually we can make a difference. The magnitude of the problems we face demands a completely different approach to government and leadership and I don’t see any of that coming from the McCain camp.

If he really feels that Sarah Palin is the best the party can do, I will be more than disappointed if they win. I will be utterly baffled.

11

Agreed.

‘Ask not what your country can do for you…’

It seems to me that thus far, Palin is in much the same guise as Obama. Like him, she inspires those who aspire.

But really, it’s far too early to tell. Particlarly with Palin, we’re going on an extreme dearth of information. Sit back, take a deep breath, and chill. We’ll be vastly better placed to make a proper judgement in a month.

But boy am I glad I’m this side of the Atlantic.

12

I’ve heard this argument before, and two problems come to mind. First, if the Republicans think they can gain from charging Obama with something, they will regardless of what the Democrats do; no matter how often the Democrats play nice the Republicans will never be anything other than ruthless.

And second, how does letting Bush and friends get away with crimes - in fact, refusing even to investigate if any crimes actually occurred - help keep America from becoming a dictatorship ? Rather the opposite; letting Bush get away with what he’s done just underlines the fact that the President is above the law; a King in all but name. In my view, letting Bush off the hook - which is what will almost certainly happen - is another step on America’s slide into dictatorship.

13

Every election is the MOST! IMPORTANT! EVAR! Don’t you know more elections will solve all our problems?

Neither has Obama. In fact, both are fairly similar in their promised policies with regards to economics, foreign policy and the increased national security state. They mostly differ on the periphery on the trivial social issues which make for fun “culture war” stories on news shows.

As an aside, if one is constantly shocked at facts then your model of whatever you’re looking at (in this case national elections) is wrong. One should revise the model until you’re no longer shocked with regularity – indeed, with the correct one it should be expected.

I find this difficult to believe. I’m with you on the idea that mass, grass roots based organizing is the most important way for people to affect change. But that’s not happening. Obama just inspires people to vote Obama. Or, I suppose, for Democrats (see: the Daily Kos hypothesis of political change).

Said the King to his court.

Yes, assuming there is evidence that Obama has committed crimes or committed aggression or things like that. Since every president does – and Obama certainly will kill train loads of people – then it really would be nice to see that punished for once. We’re really far from anything like that ever happening though.

14

It isn’t any different. Same screaming animosity as we had in 2004 and 2000.

If a fanatic could change his or her mind, s/he wouldn’t be a fanatic. The SDMB in particular has a substantial proportion of fanatics.

It will be over in a few months. Then, if McCain wins, we will get ten million threads alleging conspiracy theories about election fraud, and I can start the count-down to the first “I Never Thought It Was Possible, But McCain is Worse Than Bush” thread. Six months, max.

And if Obama wins, we will get ten million other threads all arguing that the reason he can’t do anything besides raise taxes, even with a Democratic Congress, is Bush’s fault.

Regards,
Shodan

15

I have to blame the Internet itself.

These strange little blogs and boards that have been a small diversion for a few have turned into an animating and (dis)informative site for far more people on both sides - and these arguments and insults are bleeding into the general culture.

By and large, I use this place as an outlet for political discussion - I don’t talk politics most other places and I do just a little party work. That contrasts with others who use websites as a springboard for action - and sometimes that action can be nasty.

A friend of ours was pulled up to light recently - and some moron in the car next to hers was flashing rude signs drawn on an envelope because she had an Obama sticker on her car. This was at ten at night, and she was alone in the car. Very intimidating for a woman, and there’s no excuse for it at all. And when we discussed it, we agreed that passions were so high right now that none of us would be surprised if it had gone the other way - per Sampiro above.

I think the Internet has something to do with it. Talk radio and opinion magazines and divisive elections have been there before, but the penetration of blogs and boards has been more recent.

16

Good heavens, Mr. Moto, I agree with you for the first time in our lives! The Internet tends to be a very polarizing institution. People usually read other people with whom they agree, and get new and additional reasons to feel the way that they do.

17

Trivial social issues? Well, I guess all I can say is that you and I are on different sides of the fence.

Huh? Can you run that by me again?

Uh, yeah. :rolleyes:

18

For me, the difference is that there’s one campaign than has not been politics as usual. We got so used to hearing outright lies and distortions as a fundamental part of political discourse that until this year, I tuned them all out and voted based on platform.

This year, Obama has run a campaign that spoke to voters as if they were intelligent. I’ve yet to hear a single lie or distortion from his campaign (by contrast, Palin’s speech and those leading up to it had a few of both). It’s exciting and interesting to feel that there is one leader out there who is worthy of trust. Voting before, for me, was an excercise in choosing the lesser of two evils. This year I feel like I can cast my vote for someone who is actually pretty good.

19

Oh come on. I don’t think Obama is particularly bad in this regard - actually, he’s better than most. Still, he has misled on quite a few occasions, and I think if you haven’t heard these you haven’t been critical enough.

20

For me, it’s because this is the first time I really CARE about who wins. Previously, it’s been more or less like a horse race to me: there was one side I kinda liked and the other I didn’t, and I rooted for “my team” the way I would root for the Bulls, without really feeling like I’d be affected much at the end of the day no matter who won. Sure, they might make some speeches and cut some funding and veto some bills, but the only way I’d personally feel the impact was when my favorite television show was cut off for the State of the Union address.

This time, I feel like I’d be personally affected. I feel like I’ve *been *personally affected by this past presidency (I feel the pinch at the gas pump, I feel the inconvenience at airports, I feel disgust at my kid’s school jumping through NCLB hoops instead of just teaching already, I feel the increase in hostility in my culturally diverse neighborhood, I feel the terror of home ownership NOT being a good investment for the first time in my life…), and I feel like I personally will continue to be affected by the decisions made by the next presidency.

I’m not sure if I feel this way because I’m finally “a grown up” and can connect the dots between Washington D.C. and my life - and that just coincides with this presidential race, or what. Certainly part of it is that I’m scared and I’m depressed and when I listen to Obama, I feel hopeful and strong and optimistic again, and when I listen to McCain, I feel fearful and depressed again. I prefer feeling hope, oddly enough.