Out here it’s lack of equestrian trails and slips for boats in the harbors. It’s ridiculous what you have to do to get a decent ride in or get your yacht in a safe place!!!
Shocking. But it’s good to see our legislature doing something to solve the problems. Here’s hoping yours follows their example.
I think the biggest problems facing New Mexicans is the lack of good polo facilities, though a lot of my fellow neighbors might point to the sad lack of professional football or basketball teams or perhaps no good NASCAR tracks…
(According to a quick Google search we have 106 golf courses in the state, with about 2-3 million population for the whole state, so our golf course to citizen ratio is pretty low as well. But we REALLY need those polo fields as a first priority…)
-XT
The project has already been dropped. I’d link to it, but I’m on my phone and jeep getting mobile pages.
Of course it’s been dropped. They got caught…
I mean, Governor “Private industry is the answer” can’t be caught advocating for state bond funds to build golf courses, now can he?
For the record, here’s a list of the Jack Nicklaus-designed courses ALREADY OPEN FOR PLAY in Florida:
Avila Golf & Country Club Tampa, FL, USA
Bay Point Golf Club Panama City Beach, FL, USA
Bear Lakes Country Club - Lakes Course West Palm Beach, FL, USA
Bear Lakes Country Club - Links Course West Palm Beach, FL, USA
Bear’s Paw Golf Club Naples, FL, USA
Grand Cypress Golf Club Orlando, FL, USA
Grand Cypress Golf Club - New Nine Orlando, FL, USA
Grand Haven Golf Club Palm Coast, FL, USA
Hammock Creek Palm City, FL, USA
Ibis Golf & CC - Heritage West Palm Beach, FL, USA
Ibis Golf & CC - Legend West Palm Beach, FL, USA
Ibis Golf & CC Tradition West Palm Beach, FL, USA
John’s Island (South Course) Vero Beach, FL, USA
King & Bear St. Augustine, FL, USA
La Gorce Country Club Miami Beach, FL, USA
Lost Tree Club North Palm Beach, FL, USA
Mayacoo Lakes Country Club West Palm Beach, FL, USA
North Palm Beach Country Club North Palm Beach, FL, USA
Old Corkscrew Estero, FL, USA
PGA National - Champion Course Palm Beach Gardens, FL, USA
Royal Palm Yacht & Country Club Boca Raton, FL, USA
Sailfish Point Golf Club Stuart, FL, USA
Santa Lucia River Club at Ballantrae Port St. Lucie, FL, USA
The Bear’s Club Jupiter, FL, USA
The Bear’s Club Par 3 Jupiter, FL, USA
The Club at Twin Eagles Naples, FL, USA
The Concession Bradenton, FL, USA
The Golden Bear Club at Keene’s Pointe Windermere, FL, USA
The Loxahatchee Club Jupiter, FL, USA
The Ocean Course at Ginn Hammock Beach Palm Coast, FL, USA
The Ritz-Carlton Golf Club and Spa Jupiter Jupiter, FL, USA
The Tradition Course Ginn Reunion Resort Kissimmee, FL, USA
Whispering Oak at Verandah Ft. Meyers, FL, USA
If they want to make a Jack Nicklaus Florida Golf Trail, why not throw these poor bastards some extra business?
How did you paste a list that long and totally fail to notice that every course on it is part of a private club?
The point is moot at this point, anyway.
Why are you arguing about an issue you clearly know nothing about? They’re not private clubs. The ones I’m familiar with (like Grand Cypress) are open to the public.
The point remains that there are multiple country clubs in the list that are most certainly not open to the public. That indicates that the poster of this list either doesn’t understand the difference between public and private courses, or he doesn’t understand that a “golf trail” is comprised of courses open to the public.
On top of that, this project was designed as a money generator for the state. Sending people to privately owned courses is a stupid suggestion.
“The Mission of Bear Lakes Country Club is to continue to be one of the
finest private country clubs in the United States, with a primary emphasis on meeting the desires of its members, their families and their personal guests.”
“Ibis is the world’s only private country club community with three outstanding Nicklaus family-designed Courses…”
“Santa Lucia River Club at Ballantrae has always been known as a prestigious location with good golf. Now it is known as The private club on the St. Lucie River with Great golf.”
“Founded in 1999 by Jack and Barbara Nicklaus, The Bear’s Club was conceived to offer members and their guests a world-class golf and club experience.”
“Avila Golf & Country Club located in Tampa, Florida is one of America’s most exclusive and beautiful Country Clubs.”
On top of that, the following are open to members only:
La Gorce
John’s island
Mayacoo Lakes Country Club
North Palm Beach Country Club
The Club at Twin Eagles
I haven’t looked into all of them, so I’d guess there are at least a couple more.
You know, it doesn’t really have to cost that much to be a golfer. Around here we have multiple"non-member clubs" which is basically a discount club. For about $250 bucks to join, you get to play a round for $20-$40. Hardly speed boat or horse owning cost territory.
I’m sure there are. But I’ll bet I can find 5 courses on that list of 32 that ARE open to the public, with resorts attached that would LOVE to have the prestige of being part of the “Jack Nicklaus Florida Golf Trail” so why should my fucking tax money have to pay for a bunch of NEW fucking golf courses? Do you not understand that courses in Florida are going bankrupt and getting sold at auction? That indicates that YOU don’t live here and no understanding of the issues currently facing Florida.
In fact, just as a fuck you:
- Bay Point Golf Club Panama City Beach, FL, USA - played this one
- Hammock Creek Palm City, FL, USA - played this two weeks ago (wind was blowing like a son-of-a-bitch)
- The Ocean Course at Ginn Hammock Beach Palm Coast, FL, USA - haven’t played it
- The Tradition Course Ginn Reunion Resort Kissimmee, FL, USA - ditto
- The Ritz-Carlton Golf Club and Spa Jupiter Jupiter, FL, USA - ditto
- King & Bear St. Augustine, FL, USA - played it - shot like shit, but great course
- PGA National - Champion Course Palm Beach Gardens, FL, USA - haven’t played
There. That’s 7 courses all open to the public. Hell, I’ve played 4 of the 7. Still think I don’t know what I’m talking about, dickhead?
More than ever.
You posted a list that contained close to a dozen private country clubs, and suggested that they be used as part of a golf trail. The whole fucking point of establishing a Jack Nicklaus golf trial would be to generate money for the state. Suggesting that the state send people to private golf courses instead is so stupid that it doesn’t even warrant a reply.
Really? You think I was suggesting a 32 course Golf Trail? Hell, even the RTJ Trail in Alabama isn’t that size. You think 5 new golf courses (built with tax money) would suddenly draw shit-loads of people to the state? Christ, we’d be better off giving Disney the money to build a couple of new rides. That would draw more tourists than any number of new golf courses. My problem with the whole plan is this: If it’s such a sure-fire money-maker, why doesn’t Governor Money-bags put his own fucking money up? Why do I have to pay for it?
No, I think you stupidly suggested a bunch of country clubs as potential candidates for a smaller golf trail. Because that’s exactly what you did.
Why would the governor put up money for a project that he would see absolutely no return on? If the state is the one would would benefit from the revenues generated by the courses, then the state should be the one to pony up the money. This is all assuming that the project wouldn’t be financed by some other institution.
The project didn’t need to pull in shit-loads of tourists. It just needed to attract enough players for the state to turn a profit. Since there were zero land acquisition costs associated with it, and since Nicklaus courses are enormously popular, that probably wouldn’t have been too difficult.
Did you read the bill? I did. The courses (and associated hotels) were to be built with money from bonds issued by the State. That means taxpayers would be on the hook. A management company was to be hired to run them.
Why should I give up land (and put myself on the hook for 5 new course) to build new golf courses when the current golf courses are going broke in record numbers? Until you answer that, you’re just talking out your ass.
Please show me where I said the taxpayers wouldn’t be on the hook. Did you actually read my post?
Again, did you even read my post? Because I addressed that, too. There would be no land acquisition costs associated with the project. That’s an enormous advantage. On top of that, Nicklaus-designed courses aren’t going broke in record numbers.
Jesus, I addressed both of these points less than 30 minutes ago.
Ummm…doesn’t this indicate some belief that the State might not be on the hook?
So basically, what you’re saying is that a Nicklaus course is a great investment, if you don’t have to pay for the land. Guess what? We ALREADY PAID FOR THE FUCKING LAND. And we paid for it for the express purpose of NOT turning it into a fucking golf course.
Look. I’m sympathetic. I play golf. I enjoy golf. I like playing on really nice courses (obviously, see my notes above). I would like nothing more than to have a bunch of Nicklaus courses in my price range on a regular basis. I just don’t think it’s the State’s job to provide that for me. I’d much rather they improve the schools that my kids are going to.
None of this matters anyway. Even the people who sponsored this realized that politically it wouldn’t play. The bill has been withdrawn and won’t be back. In it’s place is a bill authorizing the state to license the name “Florida Golf Trail” to a private concern willing to market it and pay the State for the privilege. Now there’s the free market in action! If Jack wants his trail, he can pay for it (or get others to).
Seriously, I can see the campaign commercial…We cut school funding cut 10%, but we found the money to build 5 new golf courses… Vote Scott/Thrasher.
There’s a great soundbite.
No. You were saying that the taxpayers would be paying for the project, which is not the same as the state being responsible for paying the bonds if, and only if, the project lost money.
So your issue isn’t with tax dollars, it’s that you don’t want to see the land spoiled. Nothing wrong with that.
This project wouldn’t have prevented that. Some folks (not all, since Palmer’s company thought the project was ill-advised) thought that it would have been a net gain for the state of Florida.
Agreed.
For the 5th time, the state was doing this in an effort to put more money its pockets. The idea wasn’t to divert money from some other source.
Which, as you note below, some people thought was possible or even likely. I will also note that I read an article today that indicated that people buying up existing golf courses generally have to pay cash since lenders are mostly unwilling to loan money for the purpose. I wonder how much those bonds would have cost? Except that they were really risk free since they are backed by the full faith and credit of the State of Florida (ie, taxpayers). Wonder how feasible it would have been if the State wouldn’t back the bonds.
Partly that, but mostly that for these people, the government can do nothing to make money (government can’t create jobs)…except when they want it to. It’s the rankest form of hypocrisy for a bunch of people who do nothing but toot the horn of private industry and the free market.
Except, for the second time, it’s money made by ignoring prior cost. The ROI ignores some of the I. It was also far from a sure-fire money maker.
Edited to add: ALL money is diverted from some other source. Who was going to pay on those bonds while the courses were being built? Takes a while, you know.
It’s exactly the excuse Governor Baby-eater used when he canceled the high-speed rail project, so while you might not say there’s “taxpayer money” at stake, the people who were behind the (now defunct) golf trail bill do.