Anyone wishing to deconstruct any piece of literature and flush it down the toilet must remember to do this in stages.
A whole book, however erudite the content, is likely to cause a blockage in one’s Residential Pipe, thus necessitating remedial action by a qualified tradesman.
The services of a plumber can be expensive, especially in emergencies, and one may find oneself having to pay said plumber a sum of money not unadjacent to several years subscription to the SDMB.
I don’t know whether this point has been brought up earier in the thread–I read through it, but y’all sound the same after a while–but installing a PtP system would require a more…ah…specific rules system.
I like the “don’t be a jerk” rule. But I have the feeling that there would be someone, who, after being banned, would make some big stink about how, according to his definition of the word jerk, he was not in violation of the rules.
So, basically, the question is this:
What is the definition of the word “jerk?”
Civil Defense:
The charge would be run on a subscription basis, no? If I were to subscribe for a magazine and I got an edition through the mail that was tatty and torn I would (a) demand a replacement or (b) demand my money back. If I didn’t get either I would go to my credit card company and ask them to take up the matter with the magazine company on my behalf.
If I were to pay $50.00 for the SDMB and was then banned unfairly (as Kyberkineticist was - look it up) I would demand my money back. If I didn’t get it then I would take up the matter in the same way as detailed above.
Another point. Let’s take the case of Satan. A long time member who was banned for being an ass in GD. He wasn’t trolling by any definition of the word, neither did he have any sock puppets. He was just rude one too many times in the wrong forum and crossed the line. We always harp on about the Jerk rule but if we start charging then we’re going to have to come up with a hard and fast, unalterable, concrete definition of the word ‘Jerk’. “Lynn Bodoni’s say-so” just won’t cut it anymore. Anyone care to provide the rest of us with a concrete Definition of the word Jerk? For what it’s worth I feel that nyone who uses the Rolleyes smilie as a total rebuttal without adding anything else like why they disagree with the poster they’re rolling their eyes at deserves to be banned on the spot - that’s just a pet peeve of mine but at least it’s a starting point.
You know, I can see some ugly fault lines emerging here already. The guys with the sticks up their asses who keep insisting that other people should be able to take on second jobs to pay for the SDMB, and who act generally patronizing to the guys who say that they can’t spare the funds–these are the assholes who are going to dominate the the board after payment is mandatory. Potential newcomers will not only be dissuaded by the up-front charge; they’ll be put off by the attitudes of the incestuous little group of sad sacks who are left on the board.
It’s going to be like an aging group of Star Trek convention-goers, who purse their lips in a mocking way when you try to express your run-of-the-mill enjoyment of ST but can’t recite the episode numbers by heart. Showing too many signs of an outside life–such as a better use for your money–will not be welcomed.
It’s a great party, but I’m not paying a cover charge when I can see that all the fun people will be moving to another party up the street in 30 minutes.
Doc Cathode
Did a few searches- no results. Link?
To me, this is yet more evidence that the administrators really aren’t thinking this through. I’m sure some people here remember that Melin was banned for dropping some hints that she might sue somebody (the Reader? another poster?) for comments made on this board. That’s when the administrators first started displaying their bland gray corporate colors, lecturing the survivors that the Reader is inches away from shutting down the board, that we (the admins) give you this board out of the goodness of our hearts but you just don’t appreciate it, that even the hint of legal action will ensure instant death for the SDMB, yadda yadda yadda. What do you think is going to happen when people actually do pay to be here and no longer are “guests” of the Reader (as many admin brownnosers like to tell us we are) but its paying customers? Hope the Reader has a couple of spare lawyers on staff.
And regarding Lynn’s joy at the thought of weeding out MPSIMS-oriented posters and returning the board to a “just the facts, ma’am” environment of GQ and GD intellectual purity: you have gotta be kidding me. If I want “facts”, I go to AllExperts.com, or Britannica.com, or myriad other sites that do have people to get their facts straight. No, even when I come here with an ostensibly GD or GQ style question, I’m really here to listen to what other people, everyday ordinary people have to say about it. And guess what will happen when I find that most of those people are gone?
From a Porter’s Five Forces perspective, you’re not only alienating your customers (the board members), you’re also alienating your suppliers (also the board members). And there are plenty of substitutes out there.
How dare you?
I have only seen a couple of “assholes” demanding that people take on second jobs. I have only seen a couple of “assholes” being patronizing towards people who don’t have the funds.
I have seen many many wonderful posters say that they’re willing and able to pay.
If you think I’m an “incestuous sad-sack” because I’m going to pay, fine. But don’t you dare insinuate that I was rude to anyone because they said they couldn’t or wouldn’t pay.
Just wondering. Since the content of this site is the property of the CR, does anyone think that there would be any marketability in say, a book form. Not the whole thing, but the best juiciest debates. It would seem to me that since I have found some of these debates to be incredibly though provoking, maybe others would too. I regularly mention to people I think will appreciate it, to stop by and read a few of the threads. We constantly engage in the same debates at work as the ones here, but without the vast array of knowledge and experience to back up our claims in the way presented here.
As I am the proud owner of all of the SD books, I would instantly purchase a book made up of the say, theological debates, or the current situation in Afghanistan, that have been posted here. Hell, I would even buy the “Ask the Gay Guy” series. Maybe I’m just a sucker for this type of reading material, but guessing by the popularity of the Cecil books, I would say there are many like me. Couldn’t one or two, medium selling books finance this whole damn thing? Maybe this is horribly naive but it seems like there is a marketable product here.
Mods, has anyone tossed this around?
“SDMB-The best/worst of Wildest Bill”.
New York Times Bestseller in my opinion
Sorry to have lumped you in with them, Green Bean, but the key word is “dominate”. You may be as respectful and considerate as all get-out, but I anticipate that the guys who are adopting this attitude will be a continual presence and will contribute substantially to an insufferably clique-ish atmosphere once all the “good riddance” casual posters are gone. I submit that at least a substantial minority of people left here will be folks who stifle the fun by taking it way too seriously.
There’s nothing wrong with the Chicago Reader trying to defray the costs of this board, or even make a buck from it.
However, if they move to a pay-per-post model, I predict that the Straight Dope Message Board will die a rapid death. There’s a reason why these boards are free - no one has figured out a way to make people pay for them.
You need a certain critical mass of posters and messages before people find it worth their while to check in regularly. What invariably happens when a fee structure is introduced is that you immediately lose at least 60-80% of your posters. A few hard-core people would pay. But then they’d find that there aren’t that many active discussions any more, so they start checking in less often. The cycle feeds on itself, and soon the board is dead. Then comes membership renewal time, and even the hard-core posters start to fade away.
That’s just the way it goes. I can’t think of a single message board on the internet that has survived a conversion to a subscription model.
My suggestion to the SDMB is to set up a donation system. Amazon.com runs one, and so does Paypal. Then put banners up to remind people to donate.
I’ll pledge right now to donate $20 the day something like that is set up. And then we can simply use peer pressure to get people to donate.
Well, I don’t agree with you, Doghouse Reilly, but I thank you for the apology and the clarification.
I don’t know what the big stink is about. When I wandered onto this board two years ago, if it had been a subscription fee right at the get-go I wouldn’t have been suprised then, so why should I be now, now that it’s finally down to it? This kind of mirrors a lot of “there is no free lunch” vs “but you’ve been serving free lunch for years now!” arguments that can be found in almost every section of the newspaper.
Personally, I doubt I’ll stick around, but not because I begrudge the Chicago Reader its %, or that I can’t afford it. As it is now, everytime I hit the “submit reply” button it’s with a sinking feeling that my contribution is nothing more than a pathetic attempt to gain more recognition than my utterly ordinary life deserves. Now with a fee imposed on that, I feel like an apt analogy would be that I’m no longer the loser at the singles bar but now am the loser ringing the doorbell of the massage parlor.
No problem.
Serlin would have fifteen registered usernames within an hour. Concrete would probably nab a few, as well as some other banned posters.
I think that this system would be infinitely better, and probably more lucrative, than the pay-per-post idea.
I agree with the guy who said that Lynn’s say-so ain’t gonna cut it anymore.
As a lawyer, I believe that many courts would take a dim view of a contract that said: “You pay us $20 for services, and we have the right to deny you those services at any time for any reason or no reason at all.”
I used to lurk on an internet chess site, and people would be occasionally banned for using computers to aid their play. IIRC, those people had their membership fee refunded, pro rata.
(standard disclaimer about legal advice)
This was my thought exactly. What is the cost of running this board, in real numbers? This is a nice board, and I’d hate to see it go to PtP, because if it does, I’m taking my ball and making my own message board. $20/yr per person seems expensive. I’d rather see this board lose a few services (i.e. lighten up on the moderating) than pay for something I can get free elsewhere.
That seems to be the point that so many continue to miss. You cannot get what you get here for free elsewhere. This message board has a very particular flavor and energy that exists because of the people who are here, and the people who are here came because it is The Straight Dope. Not “Joe’s Free Message Board”.
There are tens of thousands of places that will let you post a message for free. Not the same thing, not even close.
The Well is now charging $15 a month, or $180 per year. The SDMB is certainly worth $20.
BTW: The moderators don’t cost anything.
stoid
But the people aren’t getting anything by having to buck up.
The SDMB is what it is by virtue of the people that the SDMB now wants to charge.
The earlier analogy of a party was a good one, but what makes a party good largely depends on the people who are invited, not the venue. I wouldn’t go to a club with a $20 cover, I’d go somewhere else or stay home and invite friends over–and I won’t pay $20 to post on a message board.
P.S. And just 'cause the Well does it, it is no reason SDMB should do it (and I wouldn’t post at the Well either.)