Paypal Sucks; Fuck Paypal horror hell

I have had (U.S.-based) eBay and PayPal accounts since like forever. I had the PayPal account for the sole purpose of buying on eBay and the PayPal account was linked to my Citibank account. They could just take the money directly from my bank account. Big mistake. Never give anyone access to your bank account, much less PayPal.

Once in a long while I would buy something on eBay and pay using PayPal. No problems.

So a couple months ago, one afternoon I went on an eBay buying spree and bought eight items totaling about $100 and paid using PayPal.

So PayPal takes the money from my Citibank account and then freezes my PayPal account refusing to pay the sellers or to return the money to my Citibank account.

They say I need to provide proof of ID and proof of residence at the registered address. Because, you know, such a buying spree and such huge amounts of money are clearly suspicious. Specially from an account that is only like 13 years old.

I sent several emails which got canned responses which had nothing to do with the subject. Time went by and sellers started to complain and probably thought I was making shit up to excuse my not paying.

On eBay the status of the payments showed as “cancelled” so it looked like I had cancelled the payment, not PayPal.

I opened a thread in the eBay forums explaining the case and I got a few sympathetic responses but after a few days the thread was disappeared without trace or explanation. At least it was there long enough for the sellers to see it and realize I was not making it all up.

I asked a friend to open an eBay account and pay for the items while I sorted out the case with PayPal. Which she did.

Six items were paid and received with the sellers being helpful and understanding. The sellers of two items say they never received the payment even though PayPal shows them as paid. These two transactions are still being disputed by my friend. What a mess and what a waste of time.

I called Citibank and told them I considered PayPal’s charges as fraudulent because they have my permission to charge my account in order to make payments on my behalf but not to just take money and keep it. Citibank said so sorry, if you don’t absolutely trust them then don’t give them permission to access your account because once they have taken the money it’s gone forever. (Moral of the story: never give anyone direct access to your bank account, even if you think they are honest.)

So I call PayPal on the phone to see how to solve the issue. They need a utility bill to verify the address. Except that it is an address in America where I do not now live. At the time I opened the account it was good but I am now in Europe and now it is my girlfriend’s address. Apparently there is no way to resolve the issue because I cannot change the address to a foreign address and I cannot change the name on the account to my girlfriend’s name.

After almost two hours on the phone being transferred from one department to another what they are telling me is that I cannot get my money back unless I show them a utility bill I cannot provide because it is my girlfriend who lives there and utilities are in her name. So they just imposed a new rule without warning. A new rule which effectively blocks my money in their possession.

They explain this is not their choice but that the Federal Government requires this as a counter-terrorism measure. It requires this to give me back my money but they had no problem taking it from my bank account. No warning, nothing. They took my money and then blocked it. They could have blocked the PayPal account before taking the money but no. How convenient for them.

I said, look, I bought a bunch of trinkets on eBay worth about $12 average to be shipped from sellers in the USA to an address in the USA and paid from money in a USA bank account to bank accounts in the USA. Could you explain exactly how this could be used to finance terrorism?

They don’t know and they don’t care, they just follow Federal rules (which, apparently, allow them to take my money under false pretenses, no problem there).

So, being a practical kind of man, I thought what might be the way to get my money back. And I know it is child’s play to get creative with a graphics program and manufacture what may apparently look like a utility bill with someone’s name on it. Not that I would do such a thing which probably breaks all sorts of anti-terrorism laws and would subject the perpetrator to drone bombings and/or water-boarding. You know things have gotten out of hand when honest people have to lie just to get around the impossible bureaucracy. Kafka would be proud.

In any case, I was finally able to retrieve my money back into my bank account. Of course, the hours I spent trying to resolve this and the problems cause with the sellers and the aggravation are worth much more than the money I recovered.

Needless to say I immediately closed the PayPal account and warned my bank not to accept any further charges from PayPal. Fuck them.

So this is pitting PayPal for their retarded response in this case but also the retarded bureaucracy. Bureaucracy is a cancer which will consume the society it is meant to help.

They verified me not too long ago. I called, waited a couple minutes on hold, then talked to a person who got it straightened out.
She wouldn’t tell me what exactly I’d done to trigger it. Maybe they just wanted a voiceprint, I dunno.
But call them on the phone, don’t dink around with email.

I kinda got half way thru your post and woulda read the rest if not for my ADD but I know exactly what you are talking about because I had problems with them before and with my bank and now my accounts closed and I owe them like $600 and owe PAYHELL idk cos they kept like doubling then tripling what i owed them and could never talk to them and when did never resolved…anyway, they suck!

Summarize that shit: Ain’t no one got time for that.

OP, can your girlfriend put her utility bill into your name?

Will she?

Paypal does indeed suck. They presume far too much. And I HAVE to use them if I want to continue my membership with this site (since I’m not in the US, I can’t just pay for my membership with the credit card that I use for all my internet purchases).

I wouldn’t advise that for her; I have trouble making any changes in my utilities because they’re in my husband’s name; never mind that I’m the one who does all the financial stuff in our family.

Noted.

How about just long enough to resolve this problem, sever the connection between PayPal and the bank, then put it back to the GF’s name?

So part of this clusterfuck was self inflicted, because you never changed your address with PayPal. Plenty of blame to go around.

Um, no. That IS my address in the USA for this purpose. That is the way it has been for 13 years and they never asked for anything more. If they are going to change their conditions they should warn you with plenty of time. Taking the money and then keeping it is not the way to do things. If they want to change their conditions then don’t take my money from the bank with the excuse they are going to pay it to someone else.

Taking my money from the bank and changing their conditions a minute later just before they make the payments is obviously a scam way of holding onto my money against my will. They should have given me advance notice or, in the worst of cases, not processed the payment at all.

PayPal wanted me to do a bunch of verification bullshit a couple years ago. Something about faxing documents I have in a safe deposit box and really couldn’t be bothered to do on an already verified, two year old account. Why would I fax stuff to a random fax number based on an email that I don’t know could be fraudulent itself? Pairing the request with a phone call would have been more legitimate. As it was, I wasn’t about to bother and just cancelled the account.

Four months later I get another email begging me to reinstate, we want your business! We’ve streamlined the verification, you don’t have to jump through hoops again! Yeah, that’s what happened the first time, only to have you change your mind. Screw you.

You didn’t really read the OP did you? Especially this line:

You didn’t really read the OP did you?

Especially these lines:

I’ve read PayPal horror stories almost since its inception. I’ve had nothing to do with it and never will.

The Straight Dope’s decision to use it exclusively means I will never give the site a red cent, even if it suddenly accepted credit cards; those assholes would have my account number. I’d sooner give that to the Russian mob.

I’m in Edmonton. While I know my credit card payment goes via Paypal as opposed to going via any other credit card processor I certainly don’t have a Paypal account. I’ve had no problem renewing my SDMB membership.

Can you pay any paypal account using a credit card or only some accounts?

Paypal belongs to ebay and pretty much every ebay seller requires paypal payment. By cancelling my paypal I figure that’s the end of my shopping on ebay… unless I can pay with a credit card but even then it seems you are not protected.

As I said, my girlfriend is still disputing two payments with paypal which the sellers say they did not receive. We shall see how this part ends but from what I have been told the credit card issuer will not guarantee anything. It seems the credit card considers their service ends with transferring the balance to paypal and from then on the issue rests with paypal and the credit card does not care whether the payee provided anything or not because they consider that to be “down the line”. In other words, paypal is just like another bank.

Thankfully the amount is small but it seems even using a credit card does not guarantee anything with paypal. We shall see.

Pretty sure any.

You have to have a paypal account to receive funds, but not to pay them. They might require you to “sign up” to pay with a credit card, but you don’t need to give them access to your bank account to do so.

I have an internet bank account that I use to receive paypal money through. I keep it as close to empty as possible. Whenever I receive paypal money, I transfer it out. Whenever it gets to that account, I transfer it away. I consider it my paypal firewall.

I realize what you are saying but just to be clear and not get lost on semantics: “signing up” is the same as “opening an account”.

I bought stuff from ebay merchants and ordered paypal to take money from my bank account and make payment. Paypal took the money from my bank account and then froze it in “my paypal account” (which actually means they have the money). The bank says “too bad, so sad” and I am stuck with dealing with paypal.

If I had linked my paypal account to a credit card and given order to pay then paypal would have taken the money from the credit card and frozen it in paypal just the same. And the credit card would say “too bad, so sad” just the same because they consider they are only responsible for putting the balance in the ebay account and are not responsible for anything further. They are not paying the ebay merchant directly and they do not consider they are responsible for that part of the transaction.

The credit card does not know or care that the final payee exists. Their position is that they have nothing to do with him. They were told to transfer money to another bank (paypal) and that’s what they did.

So, either way I’m screwed.
Now, if paypal took money from a credit card totally unauthorized then I suppose you could dispute it.

It’s too bad because ebay is a convenient way to shop and waste time window shopping. Even if I only used it a couple times a year.

It seems it’s the end of using ebay for me. And I can forget about asking my girlfriend to use her account. She just opened it and is already sick of the whole thing to the point where she says the amount is not worth the effort and just forget about it.

No, you don’t need to sign up (at least, I didn’t). I did not create a Paypal account. There was an option to create or use a Paypal account when I renewed SDMB, but there was also an option to simply pay for my SDMB by credit card, exactly the same as paying for something online by credit card from any other company. I used that latter option.

I heard somewhere (no cite) that problems arise if you DO have a Paypal account tied to your credit card but don’t want to actually use your Paypal account for a particular transaction and just want to use your credit card directly. Since I don’t have a Paypal account, that’s not an issue with me.

This is one of the red flags of online fraud. Of course you know you’re not a scamster, but how do they know? They followed proper procedure. In fact, it’s more or less codified in US and EU law. (EU KYC rules for AML are rather similar to US regs).

The opposite “Someone stole my CC # and ordered tons of crap to an unverified address, stupid fucking paypal!”.

They were right and you are wrong.