PC Question - Hard drive failure?

Factual Questions
1

I’ve checked the sticky but apologise if a similar question has been posted already - for reasons that will soon become clear I don’t have much time to search the archive!

On Monday, my computer was running fine, as it normally does, when there was a repeated clicking noise (kind of like the click “off” it makes when shutting down) about 5 times, then nothing. The screen froze, and eventually I gave in and rebooted.

When I rebooted, I got a message “Error locating OS”. Oh dear, I thought - hard drive failure. However, I rebooted it again, and it started up. Considering this to be strange, I left it for a while, and just when I thought it was ok, it made the same noise. I tried to shut it down properly, but it gave me a GPF in explorer.exe (I think) and crashed.

I have since started it up a few times, and sometimes it doesn’t find the OS, sometimes it doesn’t get as far as Windows, but most of the time it boots fine. Then, after an apparently random amount of time, it does the same thing.

Once, I noticed that there were a few glitches in Windows - Explorer windows not displaying correctly etc - before it crashed. This made me think maybe it’s a software problem (which could be forcing the harddrive to shutdown, causing the noise). I think it’s more likely that it’s a hardware error that’s lead to software problems, though.

I did wonder if it could be a BIOS problem, so I reinstalled the BIOS software (I’d updated it about 8 months ago and still had the disk - put the same one on). This doesn’t appear to have helped.

I’m prepared to format the hard drive and reinstall Windows, although only if I know it’ll fix the problem. I’m worried that the problem might be with the motherboard, or the BIOS, or something else entirely.

I’ve run AVG anti-virus and it comes up clean.

Basically, I’d like to know what could cause this problem (bug, virus, hard drive, BIOS, motherboard, power supply), and how I could (relatively easily, and cheaply) elimate my way down to the actual cause. Once I’ve got the cause, then, and only then, will I start asking questions of how to fix :). I realise that I should probably upgrade anyway, considering the spec of the PC, but it runs along just fine for most things (until now).

5 year old NEC PC with:
Windows 98 SE
Pentium III 500 MHz
256MB RAM
C:\ is a 10GB hard drive where the OS resides.
D:\ is an 80GB Western Digital hard drive with data on it.
Not able to get the motherboard info at the moment.

I don’t suspect the D:\ drive as it’s much newer and has worked fine for ages. The “unable to find OS” makes me think that when there is a problem, it’s coz it can’t connect to the C:\ drive for whatever reason.

I write this as I wait for the PC to crash again - it’s likely I won’t be able to read your replies for a while but I would appreciate any help anyone can give me. Sorry for the long question and thanks for any help you are able to provide!

2

Smart money says hard drive. Immediately begin backing up the important contents of the C: to any free space on the D:.
There is a tiny chance that the IDE controller on the motherboard or the motherboard itself could be at fault. There’s another tiny chance that the IDE cable is the culprit.
Also, the D: drive could be acting up, hosing the IDE controller and causing the C: to not get recognized.
You’re in good hands here on the Straight Dope.
I’ve been working professionally in computing since 1999, and I’m sure someone who started out with Heath Kits in the 70s will be along to chime in shortly.

3

Sure seems likely to be the drive, but another possibility is the CPU fan. If your CPU chip has a fan, rather than (or in addition to) a heatsink, this fan could be clicking for a number of reasons. If it’s enough to slow the fan down, you get CPU overheating, which has all sorts of bizarre effects.

Many BIOSes have a temperature reading in them, and maybe even a cutoff level. You might poke around and see if you’re close to it. If you are, try replacing the fan (although depending on how it’s attached the CPU, you run a 10-25% chance of damaging the CPU - an acceptable risk this case, since it’s not my money :wink: , and P3 CPUs are relatively cheap.)

The last possibility is the power supply. Again, this could click, and a low power level could slow or entirely prevent a drive from spinning up. Again, relatively cheap.

Drives, fans, and power supplies are the only things I can think of that would give you a clicking noise (I’m assuming the click comes from the computer itself, not the speakers). The only fan that would be likely to affect the computer in this way would be one right on the CPU.

So all in all, I’m guessing you’ve got a cheap component (fan, power supply, or drive) to replace. I can’t imagine it’s the motherboard or bios if its actually clicking.

4

(Apples in the late 70’s. The Heathkit guy is still on his way, I’m sure.)

5

How about just swapping the drives over and installing Windows on the WD drive?

6

The clicking noise sounds like a hard drive problem. If you could identify the maker of the C Drive you could run one of the diagnostic utilities that they have on your drive to determine its condition. You could rule out a few other possibilities by installing 98 on the newer drive as stated previously.

7

I had an IBM Deskstar (one of the one’s with the first implementation of the giant magnetoresistive heads in it) go belly up after about a year in my old eMachines box.

It was evidenced by horrid clicking noises. Then, Windoze belched a BSOD and I just unplugged the machine. Several months later, I cracked the case to see if anything was salvageable. I had assumed that the original drive shipped with the box was the culprit. But, it turned out the sound was localized to the second drive (the IBM).

I removed the IBM and the box booted beautifully and is running to this day (about 2 years later).

In summary, I think it is highly likely to be one of your drives. But, exactly which is the culprit I can’t say without taking a listen inside the case.

8

I’ve made a few Heathkits (not computer kits, though) and I started working with computers in the 1970s (punch cards, acoustic couplers for modems, etc.). My first PC was a Kaypro 2 (two 5.25 inch, 360K, floppy drives, no hard disk) running CP/M.

I vote for hard disk, too. Backup everything important NOW!

9

Thanks guys for your help, it’s good to know I’m in good hands!

I have checked the cables and when I have time I’ll see about the temperature and a hard drive status utility.

I think I’ve got everything important from C onto D (most of it was there anyway) so hopefully it’ll be safe.

I have thought about installing windows on D, but when I installed that drive I formatted it as data, not OS, so I can’t install on it without reformatting (therefore losing all my data). I could partition it, I believe, but I’m worried about doing that when the OS could crash halfway through. It doesn’t bear thinking about.

If I hobble on as I am until I can afford a new PC, will it be possible to plug my D:\ into a WinXP PC? Will it recognise the FAT32 directory structure, or need to be reformatted to NTFS?

Thanks again, I may well be back with more questions!

10

Maybe the case fan or power supply fan simply *clicking *will not cause overheating and sporadic function as observed by the OP. But if the function of such a fan is sufficiently degraded, overheating can result – the CPU fan may still be blowing air over the CPU, but this matters little if the hot air isn’t getting removed from the case. I’ve had a partially blocked air intake vent that caused symptoms much like the OP’s.

11

This morning I switched the PC on, and posted message #9… shortly before I did that, I took the back off and just prodded the cables in the hard drive. They didn’t feel loose, but I thought I should just make sure. I left the back off.

After posting, I went off to work and have just returned home to a fully functional PC - this I did not expect. I’m not sure what’s more likely - that with the back off it’s not overheating, or that the cables are now in properly.

I’ll stick the back on and leave the PC running while I head off to play snooker this evening - I wonder if it’ll still be ok when I get back.

A few people have mentioned hard disk checking software - would this come from the website of the manufacturers, or is there a central website I’d get it from (having selected the correct manufacturer etc)?

Also, how do I go about checking the temperature reading (if it has one) - is this in BIOS, or do I need a utility from the motherboard supplier?

Thanks again guys, I really appreciate the help!

12

Careful with the case of. Your mileage may vary, but with some PCs your heat-sensitive components run HOTTER, not cooler, with the case off. The reason for this is that your system may be designed for good airflow with the case on, and the efforts of the fans may be muted by airflow that doesn’t match what the engineers were thinking.
This is not an iron-clad rule, and if your case has a crappy design or an accessory load-out not envisioned by the engineers, most likely irrelevant. I’ve seen anecdotal evidence pointing in both directions.
Kudos to NillyWilly for thinking of the fact that it may be the D:. I actually had an identical situation to that a month ago at my job… the 80 GB E: partition died, while the 20 GB C: partition got blamed, but wasn’t actually at fault. Wasted some time on the PC bench…

13

You’d get it from the guys who made each hard drive.
Maxtor has one, Hitachi has one (which also works for the old IBM drives), Western Digital has one, you get the picture.

14

Just got back after another few hours and it’s still running… this time I left it doing something, not just idling. However, I did leave the back off. I take your point about the possible problems this may cause although no sign of them yet. I’ll put the back on and leave it running while I’m at work - possibly doing something. We’ll see what’s what after that.

One thing I’ve kept quiet about, not wanting to muddy the waters… but NillyWilly did mention it kind of. The D:\ and C:\ drives are Master and Slave respectively. For reasons I can’t even remember now, I installed D:\ as Master (I think I was intending to put the OS on there, but never did). However, the BIOS boots from IDE-1, not IDE-0, so the Slave becomes C:\ and the Master D:.

What a mess… I promise, the moment I’ve got the cash, I’m replacing this. Even if it does work fine from now on, I don’t trust it and there’s important stuff on there. I should have time tomorrow to look at the harddrive checkers from the supplier etc.

Thanks again for your help!

15

Wow, another old-timer! I remember the Kaypro. My first computer, bought in 1981, was a Commodore VIC-20. Had an immense memory of 5K! But no drive. Later, bought a cassette drive for it (they called it a “stringy-floppy” which did work, but you had to remember on the numerical counter where you saved something, so you could fast forward to it again.

The day I brought it home and hooked it up to the TV (no monitor), I stayed up until 2:00 A.M.in awe. I kept saying, “How do they do that?”

Later I built my first 286 PC and, wonder of wonders, it not only had two 5.25 floppy drives, but a “huge” 10 MB HDD. Ain’t progress wonderful? :slight_smile: