OK, you didn’t say latest. But you said, and you stil say, you looked for the “cheapest non-used iMac”. And what did you find? A 1998 iMac. For a little over $900. But if you had just gone to Apple.com (fer cryin’ out loud) you would have found that their cheapest current iMac (that is approx. twice as powerful as the one you cited) is selling for $899. So what’s the difference? “newest”, “cheapest” - whatever. You were incorrect. And if you had told a computer newbie that the “cheapest non-used iMac is $900+, and it’s a 233 MHz G3”, you would have been wrong wrong wrong wrong. And that would have equaled “B.S.”, though of course it would not have been deliberate.
After all, when you wish to pick on someone, whether for some ill defined reason, friendly jibe or nasty attack, you look for something that will be a hot button for them.
So kidding a Mac user about their computer is a natural fit, whether you’re a PC user or non-computer user. It is of course perfectly OK for fellow Mac users to do this as the intention of the comment being a comedic poke is never in doubt.
-Doug
For $100 more than that iMac you can get a PC with over twice the CPU speed, four times the RAM, four times the disk space, a DVD-ROM and CD-RW, a faster video card, and a quality sound card. Throw in another $150 for a 17-inch monitor and it’s still cheaper than an equivalent Mac.
As far as ease of use, my 51-year-old mother had no trouble adapting to Windows. As soon as she bought her Gateway she was printing greeting cards and burning CDs.
Speaking of Gateway, $800 will buy a 733 MHz PC with 128MB of RAM, 20GB of disk space, a 48X CD-ROM, speakers, a 56K modem, and a 15" monitor. Another $50 will add a CD-RW and network card. And setting up a modern PC is no harder than setting up a Mac - just plug the blue monitor cable into the blue port with a picture of a monitor, plug the red speaker cable into the red jack with a picture of speakers, etc.
Nah.
Yeah, the current MacOS X is a little rough to use, since there aren’t a lot of converted (Carbonized) applications yet, and the device drivers are still TBD.
But the fundamental core of MacOS X is amazing (leave your computer up for months without rebooting!), and the new user interface is a lot of fun to use. I sat down at a store model and picked up Aqua inside of fifteen minutes after using it for the first time.
If you’re not a tech-head or don’t want to devote any time to riding out the early rough spots, wait until July or August before considering switching over. But don’t let the dissenters scare you away; MacOS X is the future of Apple, and it’s a great start.
Just to quibble a bit, but I seriously doubt that $150 monitor is equivalent in quality to the one built into the Mac. I don’t know what vendor Apple uses for their iMac monitors, but those are very nice tubes – ungodly refresh rates, crispy-clean high-resolution, and not a hint of fuzziness anywhere.
Well, let’s see what kind of system I could theoretically put together. This is not including shipping and handling, just the base prices of the individual parts. All parts are high-performance and quality brand names.
All part prices found at http://www.pricewatch.com.
AMD Athlon 1.33 Ghz (266 Mhz FSB) = $240
ATX Case + Power Supply = $25
Iwill KA266 Motherboard = $155
GeForce2 GTS (32 MB DDR) = $140
Soundblaster Live! Digital 5.1 = $70
256 MB 266 Mhz DDR SDRAM = $190
NIC = $30
Modem = $30
40 GB 7200 RPM HDD = $120
12X DVD = $60
8x4x32 CD-RW = $100
Viewsonic 17" Monitor (.25, 1280x1024, CRT) = $210
Internet Keyboard = $15
Optical Mouse = $30
Cambridge Soundworks DTT 2200 5.1 = $105
All that for a grand total of $1,520. This is a very high performance PC, complete with monitor and a Dolby Digital surround sound system. I’d pit this against any iMac any day, and against all but the highest performance PowerMacs. However, how many people can afford the highest performance PowerMacs? I sure can’t. Neither can the majority of the people I know.
Do lower prices mean that PC’s are superior to Macs? Not necessarily. For one thing, when you’re buying inexpensive products, you have to look out for quality issues. Who knows if your hardware is going to be a lemon? However, lower prices and hardware customizability are a big advantage PC’s have over Macs, and one which many people enjoy.
rjung: I feel better about OS X after reading your post! I figure I’ll just wait a while. Maybe wait for next year, and get a new Mac with X preinstalled. I am happy with OS 8.6 right now - I haven’t even upgraded to OS 9x!
Monster, Mr2001, etc. Yeah, yeah yeah. You could build a killer PC system for a pittance. We’ve gone over that several times. Really. Got it! 
You’re right - a PC is cheaper. Granted. The nice lists you’ve provided are only confirming what most of us never doubted,or disputed.
And a lot of Mac people are saying that the extra cost of a Mac is worth it. For many reasons.
yosemitebabe, I’m glad you recognize the price issue, but conversations on this point with most Mac zealots goes like this:
PC weenie: “One downside to Macs is that they are more expensive”
Mac weenie: “No they’re not! An imac is only $xxx!”
PC weenie: “Yeah, and the equivalent PC system would be a lot cheaper!”
Mac weenie: “So what? With the Mac, you get that great UI and ease of use!”
So when the Mac zealot says “Macs aren’t more expensive”, they’re really thinking, “taking into consideration several other factors besides money, Macs are not a worse deal.” At this point, the PC weenie says, “this person is a complete imbecile who is incapable of breaking this discussion down into individual pro/con points,” loses all patience, and begins the name-calling.
Galt, yeah, I guess it just comes from both sides being “weenies”! 
I think a big issue for me (being a PC person who dared to get into Macs) is that some PC weenies just cannot accept that I KNOW what I want. I KNOW what is good, and what isn’t good about Macs, and I still think they’re worth it. And all the rambling about “I can find a PC system for half that price” isn’t going to make a dent. I’m not stupid, I KNOW how much things cost. And it isn’t as if I’m some brainwashed Machead who has been fed a lot of biased information, and has never even worked on a PC. I came from the PC side, after all. And I still use a PC.
I am no computer expert, but to many around me, I’m the only “expert” they have. They ask my counsel in computer buying. I usually don’t fight the intense PC-biased “programming” they’ve already received from elsewhere, and I don’t push for a Mac too aggressively. Especially if they’re really on a budget. But I do tell them that Macs are great machines, and not as weird or expensive as some people say. And if anyone seems receptive, boy can I ramble about Macs!
There is one friend of mine who is artistic, and is a former photo retoucher (like I am.) Learning Photoshop on the Mac seems like just the thing for her, when she gets a computer. I hope I can persuade her to get a Mac. But she’s pretty broke, so she may end up going with a PC. Which will be a damned shame. I may even sell her my old PowerMac, to help her out.
See my point here? I love Macs, but I don’t blindly believe that everyone I meet needs one, or must have one. But some people would really benefit, and I think it’s a shame when they are overwhelmed by hysterical PC Weenies who just shudder at the thought of Macs. Some people need to get a grip. They’re computers too, and they work just fine, and some people prefer them for some very valid reasons.
I think, (if I may be so bold) that I have a relatively decent attitude about this, (occasional ranting notwithstanding. 
) But I don’t always experience a decent attitude from some PC Weenies. They are so blinded by their abhorrence of Macs, that they believe everyone should get a PC. And I disagree with this, strongly. Oh, I know there are Mac Weenies too, but I just don’t encounter many of them. There are just SO many more PC users, so naturally there are many more PC Weenies!
I’m tired of all this Mac vs. PC debating. You all should get a Commodore PET 2000 with a green screen and external 5 1/4" floppy drive and quit your damn whining. I think you can run CP/M on it but I can’t remember.
Well, this is all well and good, except many PC people are saying the extra cost for a Mac isn’t worth it. Otherwise we wouldn’t be having this debate, would we?
Now, if someone can get such a high performance PC cheaply, and another person gets an iMac because their the only Mac they can afford (Let’s go with the G3-400 iMac, I think it is). Now, they both run Photoshop or 3D Studio Max. The PC will run those programs better than the iMac. Doesn’t this kind of impact your argument that Macs are better at doing graphical applications?
It does, a little, but it is not a critical impact. Everyone knows that the G4 processor is the one compared against Intel processors (But not AMD chips). However, how many people who do heavy-duty graphical applications with their spare time can afford a PowerMac?
So, cost is HUGE factor. You can’t dismiss it.
I don’t have a dog in this fight, but I thought I’d throw my two cents’ worth in anyway …
Based on all I have read, Macs are more powerful, and are better for high-end graphic usage, than PCs (just a generic statement here). However, Macs are also more expensive than their applicable PC counterparts.
Joe Consumer is gonna compare the systems, realize that he rarely, if ever, does high-end graphics work, and buy the cheaper system. That’s why PCs vastly outnumber Macs today, and a main reason for the iMac’s success – it was a cheaper Mac. When the price came down, people bought a Mac.
If Mac goes the way of the dodo (I doubt it happens, but just suppose) it won’t be because of some huge conspiracy against the company. It’ll be because the masses voted with their wallets.
Now, Mac purists can channel Opus and scream about the “stupid horsebrained masses” if that happens, but facts is facts. And in a market-based economy, price is often the primary consideration. Doesn’t mean Macs are worse machines. They’re just pricier. No shame in that – unless it drives the company out of business.
Yeah, yeah yeah…
Well, what I am saying is that the extra cost is worth it to ME. And it’s obviously worth it to a lot of other Mac users. So - who are you, or anyone else to say it’s not worth it? (I’m not literally saying that you Monster, are telling me, Yosemite, that it’s not worth it…) But that’s basically the kind of BS I get all the time. I bought a Mac, I get grief for it. I get the line about “You can get a PC for half that, blah blah blah”. And I almost want to say “You get what you pay for.” Why can’t people just shut up about it? I mean, it’s fine to express your opinion on Mac vs. PC (that’s what we’ve been doing for 4 pages here) but in the Real World, NO ONE likes to have some yahoo tell them that the machine they just spent a grand on, (and that they just love to death) is “not worth it”. Which is what a lot of Mac people get. Would you tell someone who was really happy with their new car, new TV, or new washing machine that they made a crappy choice and they should get something else instead? Believe it or not, some people KNOW what they want, KNOW what they like, and they believe that the extra cost is worth it.
So the person waits a while and saves up for a more expensive Mac instead. If they really want it, they’ll get it. They might think it’s worth the extra cost for several reasons - the friendly OS perhaps, or the great Mac community, better color management, the Cool iMac colors, whatever. I am trying to say, that the extra cost is worth it for them, for whatever reason, or many reasons. Who are we to tell someone else that what they think is important really isn’t?
Cost is always a factor. A BMW costs more than a Ford. Some people don’t think the extra cost is worth it, other people think it is. I don’t want to get into a big car debate here (God Forbid), I’m just saying that to some people the extra cost for a Mac is worth it because of ease of use, easy troubleshooting, better graphics, or a number of other reasons. And please note my emphasis on ease of use, etc. For some people, that alone makes it worth it, even if they never do graphics.
All you can say is that a Mac is not “worth it” to you. But you can’t speak for many grannies, artists, or just regular folk who prefer the Mac, for many reasons.
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. Our argument is essentially we like Jags, they like Chryslers. I’ll stick with my Jag, thanks!
Sauron:
Without getting into whether I agree with that statement (you can probably guess), I want to point out that “Macs are more powerful” is a very vague statement.
Certainly you can find a PC that will match the speed of any given Mac. Do you mean that given the same clock speed and system resources, a typical Mac will outperform a typical PC? At which tasks?
I made the statement vague on purpose, because frankly I don’t follow these “wars” very much and I’m not up on the latest info. I’m basing it on processor speeds I’ve seen in the trade press.
My overall point was that price is the main differentiating factor between a Mac and a PC for Joe Consumer. All other things being equal (or at least comparatively equal in his mind), he’ll go with the cheaper system.
Actually, I think a more appropriate comparison would be:
You like your sports cars that can only run on a specific fuel and come with less options, whereas PC users (A good portion, at least) prefer to be able to build hot rods to whatever our specification is and that can run on any fuel.
Any fuel? So if I pop my Mac’s iMovie “fuel” into your Windows 98 PC, it’ll run? How about that Linux “gimp”, or that ol’ Atari 800 “Star Raiders” stuff?
Perhaps a more accurate analogy would be to say that your Microsoft hot rod has a bigger chain of stations where you can buy your requisite Windows-only fuel. You’re just as locked in to proprietary stuff as we are; you’re just not as aware of it.
Stoid…
What I said was directed at you, Stoid. It’s a valid concern you have, I just think you’re greatly overreacting to it.
rjung…
Sorry, but you’re wrong. The iMac monitors are smaller (15" vs. 17") and their refresh rates aren’t much different. Granted, you should be careful about finding a cheap-ass monitor, but a simple eyeballing of the display should do that for ya.
Also, you can pick up a 17" flat screen (not flat-panel) for around $250. Those’re nifty, too.
That has got to be the epitome of nitpicking.