I think I didn’t post since 2003 (when the board went to a paid subscription model for some time) and I only checked from time to time … But this thread made me come back.
I spent a good part of the day reading the whole 15 pages, and I am quite astonished what kind of bizarre people actually live on this planet (starwarsfreak, curlycoat etc.).
I actually learned a lot today:
As a new father of a 8 months old boy, I will reconsider talking a lot about my kid in front of non-family people and I will force myself to remember that not everybody loves him as much as I do
I will continue not to care a sh*** about people complaining about kids making noise or not behaving like adults. This just makes me laugh, and I pity the people in question. You are sad.
Everybody is free to like whatevery he/she likes, and I am free to think that people getting headaches from children’s laughter are … sad.
As I said, I do not have much experience in raising my child yet, well what you get from 8 months, but I do not have the impression of having his character in control. He just behaves the way he behaves. I will always try to raise him as best as I can, but I will not spoil his character just to not annoy people who are offended by the sheer presence of children anyway.
Finally, speaking for the situation in Lyon, France, there is no real children problem here, as far as I can judge it. I have never been pissed off by children before, and I am 35. I have been pissed off by adults regularly. When they speak to loud on cell phones, when they draw up the boogers through their nose in a restaurant, I am even pissed off by a couple of my best friends who don’t know how to eat. Guess what? I live with it, that’s why we are still friends and I guess I am not really easy to live with either.
I will not comment on specific posts of the two childhater’s her, since there positions are quite entrenched (and unholdable IMH0). I actually think that this thread is in its dying phase anyway, both sides have pretty much said what there is to be said.
I’m not trying to change the subject, I’m just reacting to something you said that I believe not to be true. Still don’t understand how that splits hairs and changes the subject. Seriously, I didn’t get that you were talking ONLY about people who are never planning to have children (that’s far different from saying “non-parents”). Even if that’s what you meant, I still dispute that assertion. I never wanted or planned to have children until about 6 months before I got pregnant with the first one, so effectively for about 36 years I was a “non-parent” as you define it. In addition, I know lots of people who don’t plan to ever have children. My sister is one of them…she’s 37 and hasn’t shown signs of changing her mind yet. One of my best friends, age 42, has made it abundantly clear to everyone that she doesn’t want and will never have children. I have a cousin, aged 48, who is extremely career-oriented, as is her husband, and never wanted nor had children. I could go on with many people I know who don’t show any signs of desiring a family. All of these people absolutely dote on all their nieces & nephews and friends’ kids. I have never heard any of them complain about children out in public. hOne of my daughter’s preschool teachers was telling me just the other day that she doesn’t particularly want to have children (she’s about age 35, I would guess), but she is fabulous with the kids and they all love her. So, no, I don’t believe it’s at all true that not wanting your own children = having a low tolerance, interest, or affection for children in general. In fact, I find that many of them have a great interest in having the kids around.
You’re the pyscho that brought up coats made out of children – I was just inferring that you don’t merely “dislike the company of children”, but that you hate them – as Cruella hates dalmatians. If I had said," Saying Curlcoat ‘dislikes the company of children’ is like saying ‘Ann Coulter dislikes the company of liberals,’" would you think I was accusing of voting for McCain? Or bleaching your hair? Or having an adam’s apple?
My analogy was just fine. It’s not my fault you’re a fucking dope.
You specifically claimed, in more than one post, that dogs have rights of access. If you don’t want people to think that’s what you were claiming then learn to express yourself more clearly. Your deficiencies are not my fault.
Of course I’ve seen children screaming in stores. But it’s a very small minority of children.
Of course some people really have an irrational hatred of dogs. But it’s a very small minority of people.
You seem to have a real problem understand the concept of probability and percentages. To you, if one child is a problem, they all are. If one person hates dogs, many people do. You’re totally oblivious to the absurdities of the things you say and just keep saying them. I note my suggestion you be a bit more introspective about your attitudes was misunderstood, which, in a very funny way, just goes to demonstrate what a nut you are.
I’d love for them to make a documentary about you, like one one lissener wanted to make about Springs1. It’d be fascinating to see an account of the life of a person who’s actually crazy.
Let me set you straight. Some people will not love your son AT ALL. It’s great that you love him. I’m glad you love him. I APPROVE of your loving him (both for his sake and for society’s sake). But even people who like babies will tend to avoid new parents after a while, because some new parents will ONLY talk about their children. And just being able to find one topic of conversation is…sad.
Very, very few people (with one notable exception) want kids to act like adults. Mostly, we just want kids to act appropriately in public places. As I’ve said a gazillion times before, the grocery store is not a playground, yet many kids are allowed to literally run around and play with the items for sale. And if they break something, or cause an unsafe situation, the parents rarely do anything about it, and the managers and workers seem unwilling to confront the parents. Of course, it should go without saying that there are far more kids who ARE able to control themselves, and who walk around, either helping pick out stuff or at least they don’t hinder people. And of course, again it should go without saying, there are adults who act inconsiderately, by yammering on cell phones, by parking themselves and their carts in a narrow aisle so nobody can get past, by not digging out their checkbook/card/cash until after they are all rung up, so everyone has to wait for another minute.
Not everyone will find the same things enjoyable. I, for one, hate shellfish, and I’m told that I look horrified if I’m offered shrimp cocktail. However, I don’t care if other people indulge. I just don’t care for that particular thing. On the other hand, I love heavy metal. I understand that many people don’t enjoy it, and so I don’t turn up the music in my car or portable playing devices when I’m out in public, no matter how much I want to bang my head.
Do you honestly think that I choose to get headaches from kids’ laughter? I don’t. I’d prefer to ignore it. Unfortunately, I do sometimes get headaches, and kids screeching and screaming get on my nerves, more so when I’m having a headache. And yes, I am completely aware of the irony of loving heavy metal and hating kids’ noise.
You posted this at 2:09 pm, suggesting that you weren’t complaining about unpleasant children and that I’m a deficient teacher for thinking so.
You posted this at 2:27 pm, implying that humans who haven’t yet been taught to be pleasant are not pleasant, i.e., unpleasant.
What exactly is the point you’re making here? If it’s the one I suspect you’re trying to make, you are forbidden from ever accusing someone else of nitpicking, for the rest of your life, and if the Hindus are right, for the rest of any future life, which will likely be spent becoming intimately familiar with the concept of neoteny.
To make it clear: folks like Lynn and tdn (and others I’m forgetting at the moment) have what appear to me to be perfectly reasonable positions. Not enjoying the company of unfamiliar children, or even of any children, isn’t a character flaw, any more than being uncomfortable around the severely mentally disabled is a character flaw. It passes into flaw territory when you’re full of insults and exaggerations and paranoid fantasies about disabled people or children.
That pretty much goes both ways … For the moment I have only ONE priority in my non-work conversations, and that is my child. For the records, I temporarly gave up a couple of hobbies for my son, one of them riding my motorbike a couple of 100 kilometers in the French Alpes almost every weekend. I do not regret it one second. But that said, there is not much other stuff in my non-work related life right now. My life is for the moment centered on my child, and that will stay like this for at least 2 more years, I guess. And I enjoy it very much, thank you.
Very fortunately, virtually all our friends got babies at the same time. 2 years ago, only one of our friends had a child, now there are 10+ babies in the group we hang out with and 3 more friends are pregnant. That’s perfect, before we shared going to the cinema, hanging out in bars and restaurants, riding mountbikes and motor bikes, and hiking. Now we talk about diapers and kindergarden.
I can imagine and understand that new fathers and mothers can be difficult to deal with. But somebody who does not understand the completely new situation and mindset of new parents is … a jerk. In this case, please avoid us, I don’t care. And as I said, it goes both ways. We have a girl friend which is irritated about our son, doesn’t seem to understand that we don’t have the same pace of life anymore (or not for the moment at least), and that is quite annoying to me. We see her less often, and that’s our choice, not hers.
After dogs, children now are compared to shellfish. It gets better and better.
I don’t think you did chose to get headaches. I however think that this condition implies a certain state of mind. I do not believe for a single moment that there are people who like kids who get headaches from them. But correct me if I’m wrong.
Apparently, you are unable to understand the difference between someone who is childless and then has a child, and someone who has decided to be childfree. Of course, there are a few childfree folks who love children and have decided not to have any of their own for whatever reason, but for the most part the childfree are those who have no attraction to children at all.
As for all of your examples up there, you actually think you can speak for all those folks just based on how they act?
Uh, no - see posts 636 & 637. I responded that I hadn’t said anything at all along those lines, and you proceed to prove once again that you overreact to anything you don’t agree with.
Which movie did you watch or which book did you read? Curella was indifferent to the dogs themselves, she just loved their coats.
That comparison would actually make sense. But then, it isn’t an exaggeration is it?
It is certainly your fault that you are incapable of discussing anything rationally, that you reach for exaggeration constantly, that you think balling up your little fists and calling me names is a valid way for adults to have a difference of opinion.
Which has what to do with anything? Just because a child screaming in a store might happen only every other or third visit means it doesn’t matter? Just because only one out of 100 people hate dogs means it’s OK for them to demand the service dog leave?
Where did I say that? Oh, that’s right - I didn’t.
Might be, but I wouldn’t qualify for the lead. Disliking children and hating the noise/mess/expense etc they cause doesn’t mean anyone is crazy. Any more than people who hate dogs are crazy.