Personal Therapy

Great Debates
1

I’m not trying to offend people here, but I just don’t believe in therapy. Hopefully a few of you don’t either. Two family members, one went to therapy and was diagnosed with depression, and the other, bipolar disorder. I feel that the people that go there looking for help are too confused to see their own problem(s). :smiley:

One of my sisters got the Bipolar disorder. Isn’t that disorder basically just mood swings? Say your happy one minute, think of something sad, and become sad; also vice versa. That doesn’t seem outta of place, does it? Do they even break that down for the patient? I bet they have Bipolar disorder related to depression in some way. I feel depression is just confusion also. I mean, how good can they be if they are not living with you?

I just don’t see how they can pinpoint a problem just by talking to someone who is already confused. Almost all cases I heard of, the person receives medication. Does the medication help bring awareness forth? None of the people who were depressed and on meds I’ve seen were noticeably different.

2

Here is a little something on bipolar disorder.

Here is a little something on depression.

Read them. Several times. You have much to learn.

Summary: You’re wrong.

Bipolar disorder is not just mood swings. It’s the feeling of moods in the extreme. Very energetic, lots of self-confidence, very high sex drive. Very reduced ability to sit still and concentrate on a singular task. Then for no reason whatsoever, the opposite. No energy, self-hate and self-destructiveness. Again, no ability to focus on anything as you just don’t give a fuck.

Depression is a chemical imbalance in a person’s brain that chronically keeps them from enjoying activities and life in general. And so on and so forth. Read the links.

Depression is very difficult to medicate for at least reasons. One being that a specific drug may not do anything, as you have observed. One drug for depression is not the same as a whole host of others, so a person usually will go through several medications before settling on a good one. This process can take months, because a treatment with one medication usually lasts a few weeks.

The other reason treating depression is difficult is because a person may not feel like they need to take the drugs or may not believe the medication is working. So they’ll stop and never receive a benefit, if they were or not.

Please, educate yourself. :slight_smile:

3

There is certainly a lot of overdiagnosis and self-diagnosis that goes on. Psychiatric terms have become part of the cultural lexicon. People see someone who’s a neat freak and say, “Oh, she’s so OCD!” Or they know someone who can be moody and decide they are bi-polar. Everyone has moods, everyone gets sad, everyone has some obsessive or compulsive behaviors, everyone has trouble paying attention sometimes, or sitting still, or learning some things. These are all normal problems in life.

What people forget is that in order for these things to be actual psychiatric diagnoses, the problem has to rise to a level where it impairs normal functioning. Are you so obsessive that stepping on a crack in the pavement will give you a debilitating panic attack? Then you have a real problem. But if you just really, really like all the pens on your desk to be lined up, you probably do not actually have OCD. Are you sad sometimes? Everybody is. But if you’re feeling so fucked that you can’t even get off the floor and clean yourself for a week at a time, you may be clinically depressed.

4

Bipolar disorder isn’t just mood swings. It is a serious debilitating illness that can cause one to cycle between severe depression and mania. It is an organic problem that can often be controlled with drugs. I suggest you do some reading about it - there is a lot of information available on-line.

Depression is not just confusion. It is a term covering a few different mental/emotional problems, any of which can be debilitating if the problem is severe enough. It can be brought on by life events, organic problems or a combination of the two. Drug therapy can help, as can talk therapy.

It’s not clear to me what you mean when you say you don’t believe in therapy. There are a lot of things called therapy - perhaps you mean you don’t believe in psychoanalysis. In the case of your family members, they were diagnosed with mental illnesses. Assuming the diagnoses are correct, this means they have real problems. Bipolar disorder and depression can cause a great deal of misery, and at their worst can lead to suicide. Please try to understand your relatives’ problems and give them support. They need it.

5

It’s amazing how uninformed you are, about so many things. I don’t even know where to start, so I’ll just focus on my own disorder: depression.

You equate depression with confusion. I don’t even know what that means; what exactly is confusing about feeling depressed? Are you thinking that people are always depressed as a result of something bad happening, and if nothing bad is happening they shouldn’t be depressed? That’s not confusion, that’s a disorder that can have many different causes . . . some chemical or physiological, some seasonal, some cognitive, among others. The only problem with diagnosing depression and treating it is the fact that it can be difficult discovering the cause and establishing an effective therapy. Is that what you mean by “confusion”?

6

I don’t believe everything I hear and read which is why I posted a humble opinion.
I just feel that they are making things way more complex then they need to be, blowing mental problems out of proportion. My sister didn’t walk in there wanting to see if she had Bipolar disorder specifically, she went in there to see if someone could tell her why she acts the way she does. Came back with 4 different subscriptions and a few disorders. I feel every depression med gives the placebo effect. Even if the meds do make you feel better, its only temporary and it still doesn’t get to the root of the problem. Sorry for the bad grammar.

7

Sorry, but I won’t believe chemical imbalances as a cause. Find me one person that says they have a chemical imbalance and that’s why they are depressed. Everyone should have a reason to be depressed. I’m pretty sure everyone who is depressed can come up with at least two reasons why they are depressed.

8

My apologies, I took to long to edit my post.

Are there really people who go for psychoanalysis(?) only to say “I’m depressed for no reason at all and my life is great”? I would guess they get the meds for chemical imbalance. If its seasonal, fight fire with fire and give them a placebo. Physiological would be confusion, meds wont even make sense for that

9

Maybe an analogy (or two) is in order:

I’m not diabetic, but I believe that it’s a “real” illness. Despite the fact that my pancreas does its business efficiently, though, I can mimic some of the effects of diabetes pretty easily: If I eat nothing but chocolate bars and sugared sodas for 24 hours, my blood sugar levels will rise. If I eat nothing at all for 24 hours, my blood sugar level will drop. If I were to do either of those things, could I reasonably say “Well, I’ve experienced extreme blood sugar level fluctuations, and look at me. I’m fine. Diabetes is just some ripoff diagnosis du jour.” The thing is, though, that I am ultimately able to control my blood sugar through reasonable diet and exercise. Not everyone is able to do so. And even people with Type 2 (Adult onset) diabetes, who are able to control their diabetes through diet, exercise, and weight control, have an actual illness - with real risks, like macular degeneration, neuropathy, etc. I can say that I’ve experienced a symptom or two if I’m stupid about my diet, but I sure as heck can’t say it’s not a real illness.

Or maybe one can say “Migraines are just a bunch of hooey. I have headaches, but they don’t disable me.” But I’ve had run-of-the-mill headaches, and I’ve had migraines. They hurt in similar places, but the difference is in degree. I can function with a headache, or even with a hangover. A migraine is a different animal. Like a housecat and a tiger - same idea, totally different degree.

Likewise, “feeling blue” or “having mood swings” are only mildly comparable to being depressed or experiencing bipolar disorder. “Feeling blue” is kind of equivalent to “Man, I’m so upset that my favorite blue jeans are now too tight for me to button.” Being clinically depressed, by comparison, is more like “I’m a fat cow who doesn’t deserve the oxygen I use. There’s only one logical solution to this in my mind.” (And, for bipolar, the manic side of the reaction might be "Well, let’s go shopping. Look! I found 13 new pairs of jeans that fit perfectly! And someone who wants to sleep with me! Yay! Put the jeans and my bar tab on the credit card!) What makes this even more difficult to understand is that (like diabetes,) depressive illnesses can be improved (not cured) with lifestyle changes - improved diet, more exercise, cognitive therapy, etc. Depressive illnesses are very real, but they aren’t like a broken arm or something. There’s no x-ray diagnosis, you can’t just look and tell what degree something is wrong.

10

Do you believe that if the pancreas does not produce enough insulin, it can cause Type I diabetes?

Do you believe that if there’s too much bilirubin in the blood, it causes jaundice?

The brain is not special in this regard. If the chemistry gets out of whack, it doesn’t work right. The difficulty in dealing with it is that it’s difficult for a doctor to examine the brain, because most psychiatric disorders don’t have a visible, physical manifestation that can be pointed to. It can be difficult to control, because brain chemistry is poorly understood, and pharmaceutical treatments can be hit or miss. And often the patients are difficult to convince that they are sick, because the very thing that is making them sick limits their introspective ability.

And as others have pointed out, you are failing to understand the difference between “I am sad” and “I am clinically depressed.” The former is a normal state of being which everyone has experienced. Most people will not experience clinical depression in their lives, just like most people will not experience diabetes or jaundice. It can be physically debilitating, impair independent functioning, and is not comparable to normal sadness in any way.

11

Have you ever heard of double blind studies? Scientists will make up two batches of medicine, one with the drug in it, and one without. Doctors will hand these drugs out to patients as part of the treatment. Neither the doctors nor the patients know which pills (or shots, or whatever) have the medication in them, and which are merely placebos. The scientists know, but they don’t communicate this knowledge to the patients or doctors. This filters out the placebo effect.

I’ve been on antidepressants for years. Every now and then I have to get blood tests done, to see what’s happening in my body.

Believe what you want. However, a great many studies and research proves that your beliefs are wrong.

12

I’m don’t think all medications are pointless. The difference between saying I’m sad and being clinically depressed? What if they say they are sad because they are overweight and feel they must be depressed?

So we can’t agree that there must be a underlying cause(physiological or cognitive) for being depressed? Well even if we can’t, I’m more concerned about physiological and cognitive depression. Don’t you think that medication serves no point in assisting the way you think and/or what has happened to you in the past?

13

Are you saying that you have a chemical imbalance, that you received medication because you fell into a uncontrollable state of depression? Were there no reasons for you to feel depressed? Also, as long as you have an anti-depressant by your side then your always going to be depressed.

14

I think that what you are saying is very much like telling a diabetic that his or her habits are the reason for the illness. Absolutely, there are some lifestyle choices that can intensify the symptoms: If I were diabetic, and only ate cake and cookies, it would be my “fault” that my blood sugar was out of control. However, if I’m controlling my diet and exercise levels, yet still require medication to control my blood sugar levels, that’s not a “fault.” High blood sugar is simply a symptom of an underlying organic illness.

Likewise, I can control many of the lifestyle choices that might contribute to mental illness: I can sleep properly, eat well, abstain from drink, and make every effort to avoid stressors. Despite all of my efforts, I may still need to take medication to help regulate my brain chemicals. Often, there are stressors that contribute to my feelings of depression, but those stressors aren’t the illness - my body’s reaction to stress is the illness.

I really think, though, that trying to explain mental illness is like trying to explain childbirth or migraines. If you’ve been there, you understand. If you haven’t, it takes a lot more empathy than most people possess to even begin to comprehend.

15

Basically, you are calling me a liar. I have a chemical imbalance that causes depression. That’s the “reason” why I am depressed. Every single person on my father’s side of the family has this. It is helped by medication. I have had this depression since I entered puberty, about 50 years ago. I have gone through good times and bad times, and the depression has been there constantly, no matter what. I apparently know a fucking lot more about this than you do, and when you say that I should “have a reason to be depressed” you are simply being ignorant.

Now . . . ignorance is what we fight here. But we cannot help you fight your ignorance if you have the attitude that you know more about this subject than those of us who have to deal with it every day. Believe me, you don’t.

16

Well, the physiological cause would be the chemical imbalance people keep referring to.

There are a great many drugs that affect how one thinks and feels. Alcohol is one of the first to come to mind. Among other things, it typically lowers inhibitions and increases confidence. Marijuana, heroin, nitrous oxide, khat, the list goes on and on.

There may or may not be a placebo effect present when a doctor hands a prescription to a patient and say “here, this should help.” One might also expect a placebo effect with aspirin or ibuprofen that gets dispensed under the same circumstances, i.e. with with the patient and doctor fully aware of the drug’s purpose (as opposed to a double-blind drug study). But I don’t understand why you would assert that antidepressants have no intrinsic therapeutic effect.

17

Others have said it and I’ll just repeat it. READ SOMETHING. Pull your head out of your ass and try to understand what it is you’re asking about. If you can’t bother to get the facts, your posts will be pretty meaningless.

Yeah, I get those subscriptions, too. Bi-polar Monthly and American Depression. Great reads.

I have more faith in drugs than talk therapy, but some people seem to get something out of counseling, so I’ll leave that to the individual patient to determine.

18

Moving thread from IMHO to Great Debates.

19

I’ve moved this thread because your views run counter to actual science(as has been already and will continue to be shown), and as such calls for an informed opinion, rather than a humble opinion.

20

So you’re basically saying depression isn’t real? That its just feeling bad sometimes? You don’t have it so it must just be imaginary? This is very wrong headed. I don’t have it but my son does, believe me he doesn’t want to be clinically depressed. He has a very real battle with this and has great resistance to the medicines he needs to treat it. Does this lack of empathy extend to other parts of your life? Maybe people are homeless because they want to be? Alcholics are just drunks with excuses?

You don’t have to believe EVERYTHING you read, but not everything you read has to be wrong either does it?