I think this is an “all approaches can be okay” situation, at least depending on the circumstances. It’s fine if you don’t think it’s worth your time or energy, and it’s also fine if someone else wants to spend their time and energy trying to change someone’s mind.
My friend eventually got “better”, although not before alienating a son who is a great person. I feel sorry for the guy. I also feel sorry for the son that had to grow up with him as a dad.
What happens to us as children affects us as adults.
Seems like you had a tough experience.
The point of being adult is people should learn the correct way to navigate the world.
Some are slower to do this. That’s no reason to dismiss them, altogether.
Hate and derision never helped anyone.
I have hope in my heart that @puzzlegal friendship can be saved and they can find a way to have civil discourse.
The biggest problem in persuading anyone to vote a certain way is the natural ingrained human rebellion against being told what to do. You can argue for Harris til you are blue in the face but the recipient is likely to think, “This isn’t a decision that arises organically from inside myself, this is a decision someone is trying to impose on me from the outside.”
If he’s a self-proclaimed “Libertarian”, you can maybe appeal to those instincts by reminding him of the various gigantic government plans that Trump has if re-elected:
- 10% tariffs on all imported goods.
- Unleashing our military in US cities as a fake law-and-order play
- Rounding up immigrants into concentration camps and deporting them
- Sicking his DOJ on political opponents
- Running up deficits in the trillions of dollars
- Attacking women’s reproductive rights
- Throwing millions out of their healthcare by repealing the ACA
- Underming elections & democracy worldwide by his support of regimes like Putin & Orban.
You might not be able to get him to vote for Harris/Walz. But if he’s a real Libertarian, and takes that small government view seriously, then there’s no way he’d vote for Trump. I think you should challenge his small government sensibilities by reminding him that Trump is a big government guy who is the enemy of Libertarians.
Then remind him that Trump supports socialism, because Trump is not campaigning to get rid of Medicare & Social Security. When people vote against Dems because of “soshulizm”, I often scratch my head, because these are usually the same people who will value SS/Medicare above all else from our government. And remind him that Trump ran up the most debt of any president ever when he was in office.
If fear of socialism is a real thing with this guy, then voting for Trump is not the answer.
Caveat: he may be among those who believe that either Harris OR the America-hating fuckstick is going to be the eventual winner; and that a third-party vote is effectively one for the worse outcome (which, AIUI, he wrongly believes is a Harris presidency).
It gets easier after the first couple hundred times. And it is a huge sign of acceptance at home is making the effort to correctly say the name and pronouns, and to correct oneself when slipping. The suicide rate for trans kids is horrific, and a huge part of being accepted/avoiding suicide is where the home is a safe space even if the rest of society is not.
(If it’s not clear, I am the father of a son that came out 3 days before starting high school, who had a therapist and really good medical care at a Children’s Hospital gender clinic, started testosterone at 16, top surgery at 17, legal name and gender change at 18, and had a great first year at university. Pro parenting tip: very few things can not be made better by saying “you’re my child, I love you, I’m with you on the journey.” )
Here’s a Tweet with info that should get his attention as a libertarian:
text of Tweet
Trump has now proposed a 20% tariff on all imports and a ~60% tariff on Chinese imports.
No matter what he says, tariffs aren’t paid by the other country. They’re paid by you.
Recent analysis predicts his plan would cost the average family about $3,900 extra per year.
You’re not going to convince someone who is considering becoming a fascist to not become a fascist. The fact that he’s hinting at it means his mind is made up. You need to decide if you want to stay friends with a fascist.
Where do “Fuck Trudeau” signs displayed prominently on desks (not mine) fall on that spectrum? This business of people not discussing politics at work intrigues me and I would LOVE to subscribe to your newsletter.
I don’t know if he is. My husband talked politics with him briefly. I asked, “is he voting for Trump?”, my husband replied, “maybe”. I know he doesn’t like Harris, who he thinks is too liberal. His wife (who is a Black woman and a pediatrician) supports Harris, but they don’t agree on politics.
You may have gotten used to their beliefs, but you have to ask yourself this: What would I have thought of these people if they had shown me this side of their personal beliefs ten years ago?
The reason we are where we are is because people like us didn’t call out racists when we encountered them. We didn’t call out our racist uncles because we didn’t want to ruin thanksgiving, we remained silent when they said ugly shit. We are complicit in their sin.
If his wife can’t convince him, there’s probably not much you can do. If she isn’t trying, she probably knows it’s futile. If he asks for your opinion, there are plenty of good points you can make, but anyone who is struggling with this really has no perspective on the problem.
If he has any affection for American democracy, remind him of what Judge Luttig said recently:
“In voting for Vice President Harris, I assume that her public policy views are vastly different from my own, but I am indifferent in this election as to her policy views on any issues other than America’s Democracy, the Constitution, and the Rule of Law, as I believe all Americans should be,” he said.
Harris being “too liberal” is simply not something he should worry about (even if true).
I have Conservative Jewish in-laws who are Pro-Trump right-wingers. There is no chance of convincing them to vote for Harris, any more than you could talk a Jehovah’s Witness into Atheism.
My feeling is, what arguments could he make, or anyone else make, that would convince you to vote for Trump? It’s like that, but in reverse.
I’ll just repeat myself a bit, in a shorter post, given all the replies.
If she doesn’t try, she’s guaranteed failure. If she’s willing to try, she should try. And this thread, as I read it, is about how she can try.
Not whether she should. Giving up is a guaranteed loss.
I feel this is the proper thread for my comment.
I have been throwing my vote away by voting for the Libertarian candidate for a long time, but an old friend of mine, a good man and ardent liberal, will be dying soon of cancer and I told him I’ll be voting Democrat this year to honor him.
Hey, thanks, @SuntanLotion .